Religion

First topic message reminder :

Hi, wuts dis?

jpb6891 wrote:...Dr. Phil is a christian. I do not know the situation, but calling someone an enemy is not showing the love of Jesus at all. Beware of false prophets that come to you in the form of sheep's clothing when in reality they are wolves. Doug Perry is a false prophet and not a Christian. Westboro Baptist Church is not a christian church either.

...False teachers have gone out in the world. These false teachers are not Christian. The false teachers are of Satan. Doug Perry supported Satan when he made that comment. He has no idea he supported Satan. Jesus preached love. Doug Perry does not preach love. He preaches hate which comes from Satan.

Well, Doug Perry certainly isn’t a Hare Krishna. You are doing the "No True Scottsmen Logic Fallacy." If Christians who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Christians, then by the same logic:
-Scottsmen who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Scottsmen. Hare Krishnas who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Hare Krishnas. The Jewish who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Jewish. Hindus who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Hindus. Muslims who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Muslims. Buddhists who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Buddhists. Zoroastrians who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Zoroastrians. Agnostics who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Agnostics. Humanists who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Humanists. Atheists who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Atheists. Deists who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Deists. Voodoo followers who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Voodoo followers. Greek Pagans who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Greek Pagans. Satanists who aren’t peaceful aren’t true Satanists.
-Since The Crusaders, The Spanish Inquisitors, Henry VIII, Timothy McVeigh, Andrea Yates, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson, and The Heaven’s Gate followers are Christians who killed or committed suicide, then it doesn’t mean that you can’t say they aren’t true Christians.
-People don’t need religion to be peaceful. What people need is empathy.
-Be very careful around people who say that they’ve found Jesus, Mohammed, or God in prison or a mental institute. Jesus, Mohammed, or God must have been in that prison or mental institute.
-Atheists have the better morality because they already have empathy and already are moral. Some of the Christians are criminals because they can sin, be forgiven, sin, be forgiven, sin, be forgiven, and again, and again.
-...and last but not least, "The Shocking Truth About Roadside Crosses:" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Before even getting down that road one needs to first prove the Bible is a doctrine of explicit non-violence. Which you can't do.

Dark_wizzie wrote:Before even getting down that road one needs to first prove the Bible is a doctrine of explicit non-violence. Which you can't do.

Hi. Where did I say that the Bible is all non-violence? Go to the bottom of page 3 of the religion thread where I post about Curly Thornton and the Matthew 10:34-37 passage disturbing me. You may have missed it because the link might have gone to my post at the top of page 4 that I posted immediately afterwards.

I'd rather be a good person than a good Christian.

This religion or lack of religion thread is tame compared to others. Today, I found out about a different computer game message board with 691 pages about religion compared to just a few pages for ours.

Message was for Jpb not you.

I've already outlined all of my arguments in my book. If I were to take part in that 700 paged thread, I'd be repeating the same information over and over because people think they know what they're talking about, but they don't.

But if I could pick out any sentence, I'd just say this:

Religions are not unique. There are thousands of dead gods nobody worshipped anymore. Nobody worships Zeus anymore. But we still have lots of religions today, billions of people who think billions more are profoundly wrong about their religious convictions. And statistically speaking, a person raised in America is most likely going to be Christian. The location in which you are born is the largest factor in which religion you think is true. That's a precarious basis to asset truth.

I go to Regent University. I am planning on moving into the commons this fall. I like the Regent University ads on this site when I am not logged in. I also like the Bible miniseries on the History Channel. The Bible is violent, but so is Wolfenstein. The reason why God told Israel to wipe out nations is becuase those nations were being like Hitler. The nations were involved in genocide, so God told Israel to wipe out evil nations. God supported BJ in killing Hitler in Wolfenstein 3D. What is the difference? Israel stopped genocide and BJ stopped genocide. Both BJ and Israel were serving God. BJ was serving God in a fictional since by liberating Jews from the Nazis just like the Americans liberated the Jews in real life.

jpb6891 wrote: The nations were involved in genocide, so God told Israel to wipe out evil nations.

Sorry but this is a ridiculous arguement. What about the great flood, for starters there's no way Moses got 2 of all 10 billion animals on one damn boat, but then the people (that God HIMSELF) created weren't behaving correctly so he decidied to kill every single human and all bar 2 or each animal? What type of God is that!!! 'Do as I say or I'll kill your asses, everyone except one of you!!'
Religion is based on faith, anyone who takes the Bible as gospel is either so completely blinded by faith that they can't see reality (Like Sciene and fact etc. ) or just simply too dumb to see reason. Use your brains people, isn't that what God supposedly created us for? As long as we don't question Him? lol

According to Gallup, 40% of America believes in the Creationist point of view. I did a quick bit of math. If people believe the world is 6000 years old, that is mathematically equivalent to thinking the equator of the earth is 19 yards. A non-trivial error. We trust science for everything because it has given us everything, except... when it conflicts with our faith.

Not all creationists believe that the world is 6000 years old.
Creationism is a much wider concept.

A Gallup poll reported that the percentage of people in the U.S. who believe in a strict interpretation of creationism had fallen to 40% in 2010 after a high of 46% in 2006. And I meet people. Who honestly believe that garbage.

By strict I assume they mean the world is created within' a week. If I freely take the statistic that 80% of Americans report to be Christian, then practically 80% believe that god created the world which would still qualify as 'creationism'. But if I"m after that statistic I'd just note how many people are Christian in America.

jpb6891 wrote:I go to Regent University. I am planning on moving into the commons this fall. I like the Regent University ads on this site when I am not logged in. I also like the Bible miniseries on the History Channel. The Bible is violent, but so is Wolfenstein. The reason why God told Israel to wipe out nations is becuase those nations were being like Hitler. The nations were involved in genocide, so God told Israel to wipe out evil nations. God supported BJ in killing Hitler in Wolfenstein 3D. What is the difference? Israel stopped genocide and BJ stopped genocide. Both BJ and Israel were serving God. BJ was serving God in a fictional since by liberating Jews from the Nazis just like the Americans liberated the Jews in real life.

Sometimes I worry that somebody's going to misinterpret you as typing things just to get a reaction instead of being thought provoking.

<< I like the Regent University ads on this site when I am not logged in.

I get the Regent ads on Yahoo mail. I would put an end to all of those annoying Adobe/Macromedia Flash ads whether religious or secular.

<< I also like the Bible miniseries on the History Channel.

The Bible miniseries on the History Channel? Mark Burnett's and Roma Downy's miniseries? I've heard that the miniseries put too much emphasis on Sodom and Gomorrah. 10 years ago, I had heard that The English Bible and those translated from English are the only Bibles with the word sodomy. I had heard that the German Bible has the word for pedophiles or "pedophiles who kill." At Sodom, Gomorrah, Bela-Zoar, and the 2 other cities, they were murderous straight or bisexual pedophiles. They banged on Lott's door and Lott shouted, "If you don't kill me, then I'll let you marry one of my virgin daughters!" That is how corrupt they were. Sodom and Gomorrah and 1 passage from Leviticus are frequently the quoted passages used against gay marriage. Who cares if 2 consenting monogamous gays over age 21 marry? I also don't understand why a man would love a man, but that doesn't mean that I would subjugate, dehumanize, execute, or damn them.

<< The Bible is violent, but so is Wolfenstein.

Wolfenstein 3D is just a game and has glaring historical problems. I had heard that the make and model of chaingun is an American 1960s weapon. William J Blaskowics is not a real person. Wikipedia shows Wolfenstein, Germany as just a place with boulders. The Historical Hitler committed suicide.

Do you believe in Huckleberry Fin and Tom Sawyer because Hannibal, Missouri is real?

<< The reason why God told Israel to wipe out nations is becuase those nations were being like Hitler.

So Yahweh is a God of War? I knew it! Joseph Campbell in The Power of The Myth said that Yahweh is a God of War!

You believe that is the only reason why God tells people to kill other people? If you believe The Bible, then God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. A sensible father would shout, "AH, HELL, NO!" Abraham has been compared to Andrea Yates killing her kids and I don't know if she's gotten the idea from that part of The Bible. If God so loved the world that he crucified his son to show his love, then this sounds like schizophrenic John Hinckley Jr. shooting Ronald Reagan to impress Jodi Foster. What about believers in Jesus who believe that Jesus wasn't cosmic and wasn't The Son of God? That sounds more sensible to me.

In the English Bible, Lott's wife looked back and God turned her into a pillar of salt. What kind of God would do that?

<< The nations were involved in genocide, so God told Israel to wipe out evil nations.

Alexander the Great conquered Israel, but let the Jews practice their religion. During the Babylonian captivity, somebody who I think was Darius let the Jews still practice their religion.

There's no historical evidence of 10 plagues in Egypt at the time of Moses. The Exodus population was exaggerated.

<< God supported BJ in killing Hitler in Wolfenstein 3D.

You don't need to believe in God to kill a murderous dictator.

So if I finish my Greek Pagan first person shooter mod with monsters and Greek gods, then does that mean that the monsters and Greek gods are real?

My gosh, find some personal aquaintences in your town of different viewpoints than yours.

Dark_wizzie wrote: A Gallup poll reported that the percentage of people in the U.S. who believe in a strict interpretation of creationism had fallen to 40% in 2010 after a high of 46% in 2006. And I meet people. Who honestly believe that garbage.

By strict I assume they mean the world is created within' a week. If I freely take the statistic that 80% of Americans report to be Christian, then practically 80% believe that god created the world which would still qualify as 'creationism'. But if I"m after that statistic I'd just note how many people are Christian in America.

There's also Zechariah Sitchin's creationism in The Earth Chronicles, Scientology creationism, Rael's creationism, and whatever Shirley McClean's creationism is all about.

There was going to be an Indiana bill about a year ago to push creationism in schools. But it was only Jewish or Christian creationism. To make it so that the bill almost definitely wouldn't pass, they suggested adding Scientology creationism, Native American creationism, maybe Viking creation, maybe Japanese creationism, and so on, and so on. The original politician who planned the bill was no longer interested.

Speaking of Native American creationism, which I just mentioned, Aztecs and Maya believe in over 200 or 300 gods. Hopi believe in 260 or so Kachina gods. I think that The Lakota Sioux believe in 1 god. In my area of Indiana, the legend was that Kichemonde created crops and the Earth. I never could tell whether Kichemonde was supposed to be mortal like Adam from The Bible, a spirit without parents like Yahweh, or a mortal god like a viking god.

With Jesus I think there is evidence to suggest some dude named Jesus did exist long time ago at around the time period described. But Moses story is completely empty in evidence. They wandered 40 years in the desert, right? No traces of evidence... Israeli archeologists would be the first to want to discover such a thing...

Fucking History channel...
Start posting things that are not history. Now if they wanna change the name to 'Christian Channel' I'd be fine. It's like Fox News. If they called it Fox Rhetoric, I'd be fine.

Dark_wizzie wrote:With Jesus I think there is evidence to suggest some dude named Jesus did exist long time ago at around the time period described. But Moses story is completely empty in evidence. They wandered 40 years in the desert, right? No traces of evidence... Israeli archeologists would be the first to want to discover such a thing...

F***ing History channel...
Start posting things that are not history. Now if they wanna change the name to 'Christian Channel' I'd be fine. It's like Fox News. If they called it Fox Rhetoric, I'd be fine.

Ever watched Ancient Aliens on The History Channel? It became old and tired fast. I try to avoid Fox News and CNN.

CNN I heard was crap too, I saw a parody in John Stewart. If Bill Oreily can provide hints at how to do a news segment better, you've got serious problems, CNN.

Grats on 888th post!

Dark_wizzie wrote:Grats on 888th post!

I didn't know it was the Stacked Deck Easter egg. I estimate that at this rate I'll have 2,020 posts in the year 2020.

jpb6891 wrote:The Bible is violent, but so is Wolfenstein.

Sure there is tons of violence in the world that is not Bible related. But what's the point here? Bible is very violent. God is very violent, envy, angry, furious.......
Wolfenstein is violent - but is not a religion, doesn't claim to be a word of God, doesn't claim to be real or being based on any real events, doesn't claim to be source of moral, ethical or other guidelines (nor does it demand to replace your own intuitive morals and ethics - to it's own (based on 3000 year old primitive mesopotamian ethics) without doubt or questioning), doesn't have religious followers all over the world, doesn't have a set of rules that regulate every smallest aspect of your life, sexuality, thoughts, actions...doesn't call to mutulate children, doesn't treat women at the levels of donkeys, isn't racist, doesn't claim one group of people to be choosen or pure over others, doesn't have different rules and rights for jews and non-jews...Doesn't tell you can rape and take women of your enemies, or make eye-for-eye, kill people just because they don't follow sabbath or cheat with others.....

What's the point you're trying to make?

The reason why God told Israel to wipe out nations

Actually if you read the Bible - Israel didn't wipe ANY nation - moreso - they lived amongst them, moreso - were deeply affected by their religion and Gods. Moreso - Israel itself was much more wiped by others in the Bible - than it wiped others. So Israel was like Hitler?
About "backwards prophecies" - you just need to learn ancient literature/sources more. History is written by the winners, heh.
Why can't God wipe out nations by himself? He wiped all humanity in the Flood...
This reminds me of "Mortal Kombat"
If God gave nations a free choice - why would he punish them for using it?
.......
...

is becuase those nations were being like Hitler

How so? What Sin did they do that Israel itself didn't do in some periods?
What nation was worse than the other? All nations were acting from the same basic morals of that primitive time (including child sacrifice, same war ethics (that sometimes could look as genocyde), same multiGods belief systems), ethics and rules of that time, there were no saints nor deep sinners - because relative to their time - those were the ethics and morals - and level of culture development and evolution. If someone would act by different ethics - it'd be slauthered by those who doesn't follow that ethics and morals. Simple survival in very harsh place and time.

What is the parallel to Hitler?

God supported BJ in killing Hitler in Wolfenstein 3D

Maaaan, it's just a game....chill.

just like the Americans liberated the Jews in real life.

Most jews were liberated by russians, not by americans.

Dark_wizzie wrote:Israeli archeologists would be the first to want to discover such a thing...

Why Israeli? Sinai desert is Egypt's territory. You have some confusion here. Israel/Palestine might be their final destination - but that's it.

Also Bible study clearly shows that things couldn't be as described - moreso - 2 groups that might have exiled Egypt in ancient time (and their stories might have affected such legacy) were Haabiru/Haapiru and Hyksos - but those if exiled - did this in differnet periods for different reasons. Haapiru were slaves in Egypt that might have escaped in a small number - and Hyksos conquired Egypt and ruled it - and later were kicked out from there twice. Also there are Achnaton followers (Levits and Cohens) - Egyptian priests who were kicked out of Egypt and came here to Ehuda area to preach Monotheism of Achnaton - later merging it with local gods qualities/names - and later being priests of Jerusalem trying to make it monotheistic place to unify all gods of the area under one big God.

There is no direct link between Hyksos and israelities beside the "Egypt" link. Haapiru link is stronger (Haabiru - Ibri - Ivri), but till, that group would have been a very small percentage of "israelities" and just had some effect - merged with many different peoples - local - and those who came through Syrian desert from Mittany (north) after being kicked from there by "forgot his name".

jpb68...

I'd suggest you to read more books like "Bible Unearthed" - to try to split fiction from real.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Download (eng):
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
In russian:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I can send you good books to read in english, just ask

And about different version of creationism - can send you Sitchin books And in general - every mythology in the World has creation myths. Why to teach only one version?

Allah in the Islam religion that terrorists serve is actually Satan. The terrorists have no idea that they are serving Satan, but they are. Notice that I said terrorists and not peaceful Muslims.

You need to back up your statements with evidence.

jpb6891 wrote:Allah in the Islam religion that terrorists serve is actually Satan. The terrorists have no idea that they are serving Satan, but they are. Notice that I said terrorists and not peaceful Muslims.

For 3 seconds, I first I thought that JPB was being a comedian and that I should scroll down for a punchline. I scrolled down and there was no punchline. I'm serious. JPB, do you understand why I'm worried about you and I think that people might misinterpret you as typing just to get a reaction? Please work on appropriateness. Your sentences about Allah sound like they were typed by a younger person. Listen, I need to go out of town for hours. If you want me to continue this conversation, then it's going to have to be overnight or tomorrow.

Ehuda? That’s fine, but we call it Judea here.

I’m going to use German as an example because I know not very much about how to translate Hebrew. I doubt if the Roman Emperors and Egyptian Pharaohs have the same names in German as in English. I don’t know how it works in modern Hebrew, but I guess that you mean that Achnaton is called Ahkenaten here in America: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . Siegmund Freud’s last book before he died was that Moses was a monotheistic priest of Ahkenaten.

I’ve heard a theory that Moses was a Hyksos.

According to the book, "Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of World History," the Jews weren’t the first monotheists because there was Ahkenaten and a Greek area like Micenea, Minoa, or Crete that worshipped one god. I know that Yahweh wasn’t the only god mentioned in The Bible because there was also Satan, Astaroth/Ashtoreth, and Baal/Bell. Some say that Satan or Shaitan is "deceiver" translated while others say that Satan is a mistranslation of The Egyptian Set or Greek Satyr. Astaroth/Ashtoreth was a love and fertility goddess like Astarte, Ishtar, Inanna, Aphrodite, or Venus. Baal is a king and storm god like Jove, Jupiter, or Zeus. I once saw a magazine article that I think it was Carmel, Isreal where archeologists found a statue of a sea god that we would call Poseidon or Neptune.

doomjedi wrote:jpb68...

I'd suggest you to read more books like "Bible Unearthed" - to try to split fiction from real.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Download (eng):
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
In russian:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I can send you good books to read in english, just ask

And about different version of creationism - can send you Sitchin books And in general - every mythology in the World has creation myths. Why to teach only one version?

I might eventually read Bible Unearthed, Dark_wizzie's book, reread Gary Acord's Heaven on Earth, and books from an author that I don't know if you'd appreciate. Gary Acord is a philosopher who makes Wolf 3D mods. I'm not interested in reading Zechariah Sitchin anymore, but if you read his books then it's fine.

<< And in general - every mythology in the World has creation myths. Why to teach only one version?

Why to teach only one version in America? Maybe because religion is used to control people and they don't want the status quo challenged. Maybe they fear other religions because they don't understand them. Maybe because they possibly are from a warped kind of Christianity that thinks that only Christians don't go to Hell. 4 or 5 American states want to teach Christianity in public schools.

Dover, Delaware wanted Intelligent Design taught in schools. Intelligent Design is biased because it assumes that the Intelligent Designer is the god of Judaism or Christianity, instead of a god of Deism, Osiris, Dionysis, Mithras, Jupiter, Zeus, Allah, or others. In response, one school in a different city started a class that would teach creationism of several mythologies including Native Americans. The problem was that not enough students signed up for the class and it was canceled. Native Americans have languages and mythologies that are inter-related just like the different Mesopotamian groups have languages and mythologies that are inter-related.

JPB, I'll respond to you in a couple hours.

stathmk wrote:Ehuda? That’s fine, but we call it Judea here.

Yes, sorry, I was transliterating Hebrew here...

I don’t know how it works in modern Hebrew, but I guess that you mean that Achnaton is called Ahkenaten here in America

Yes, again, sorry - was transliterating both russian and hebrew here.

I'm not interested in reading Zechariah Sitchin anymore

I wasn't suggesting it to you...you know who I was suggesting it for. It'll be healthy for him to know there are many theories, and why to teach only one?
I heard some bad stuff about some of some basic Sitchin "facts" that were quite convincing in claiming it's bullshit. Including analisys of famous Berlin's seal that is clearly not what Sitchin claims it to be (and it's a core of his theory)...also other things, including disprove of gold and mines and mining in general...so currently I'm much less fond of Sitchin that I was before. I still think there is strong evidence of advanced civilisations on far past. There are tons of strong evidence....
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I might eventually read Bible Unearthed

You won't be sorry, very good book.

Dark_wizzie mentioned Young Earth Creationism.  On today’s episode of BONES, they had an actor impersonating a Southern owner of a Creation (Cretin?) Museum and it reminded me of this thread.
 
Some believe that the Earth is 6,000-years-old.  I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness, but some of them believe that the Earth is 48,000-years-old.  Some of the folk Chinese believed that Shang-Ti carved out the Earth in 10,500 years.  I thought that the Sumero-Akkadians believed that the Earth is 432,000-years-old.  I thought that the Hindus believe that the Earth is 732,000-years-old or eternal.
 
First of all, I’ll explain reasons why the Earth can’t be only 6,000-years-old.  The Iraqi Sumerian cuneiform writing is 6,900-years-old.  Iran claims to have discovered a Persian written language over 7,000-years-old that nobody can translate.  The Creation Museum in Kentucky claims that The Earth is 6,000-years-old, but they must not have noticed that the cave on the other side of The Ohio River that I want to visit has 10,000-year-old animal bones: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] .  I’ve seen tree remains in Brian Head, Utah that are older than 6,000 years.  The Egyptian calendar is older than 6,000 years.  Somebody claimed to count 7,700 layers of rocks off of the coast of Japan, but I’ve never been to Japan.  I’ve been to the 50,000-year-old meteor crater near Winslow, Arizona.  The Native Americans have been in North America from Mongolia and Siberia for 12,900 years.  I’m not Mormon, but in the 1800s they believed that Native Americans are the descendants of lost tribes of Israel probably to fit in with the idea of their Mormon creationism.  DNA tests show that this is not true.  Marsh Arabs have been in Iraq for 10,000 years, Saddam Hussein subjugated them, and he didn’t care.  There was a 15,000 or 16,000-year-old ancestor language in The Republic of Turkey and The Middle East that Soviet linguists called Nostratic.  DNA changes at a predictable rate and humans have been in Europe for about 40,000 to 50,000 years.  I can’t remember if it was National Geographic’s web site where I had read that dead human bodies have been found under a mammoth or mastodon probably from a ritual that dates to 40,000-year-ago.  A volcano eruption from 75,000-years-ago left about 2,000 people on Earth.  Some of the logic behind it is that everybody has 46 chromosome markers and that the 92,000 chromosome markers in today’s population support the volcano theory.  I go to a State Park in Indiana and they explain the history of how it’s millions of years old, but I don’t have time to explain that.  A comet fragment hit Mexico 65 million years ago while volcanoes in India erupted 70 to 60 million years ago.  This killed the dinosaurs that didn’t evolve into birds.  About 25 years ago in elementary school, I had heard explanations that South America and Africa fit together because they were one continent 200-million-years ago.  The 200-million-year figure may be outdated. …
 
I had heard that an Indiana man went to a Skeptic or Freethinkers meeting.  He tore out the first page of only his Bible to the astonishment of everybody.  He said, “Why are we keeping it in The Bible when we have volumes of information that the Earth is 4.6-billion-years-old?”  I thought about it and Terah is the father of Abraham.  None of the characters in The Bible before Terah sound seriously historical.  Adam, Eve, 600-year-old Noah and 969-year-old Methuselah don’t sound serious.
 
My point is that the Earth is older than 6,000 years.  I was in a Skeptics Society and we discussed Creationism and Intelligent Design.  I wanted to do a web site that’s just a timeline of the Universe.  I first wondered if I should call it “6,000 reasons why the Earth is over 6,000 years old.”  I record my sources whenever I can and I haven’t started the timeline web page yet.  I’m concerned about how to do this timeline online professionally without it looking like only a college senior’s notebook.  There are so many books about the age of the universe.
 
I have a lot of things on my to-do-list.  I’ll type on this Religion thread here another day next week if I remember to at all.

First of all, I’ll explain reasons why the Earth can’t be only 6,000-years-old.  The Iraqi Sumerian cuneiform writing is 6,900-years-old.

All those claims and proofs doesn't convince the deeply religious people. Even if you prove them you have older bones and artifacts -they claim that God could create the Earth as it is - with all those "ancient" artifacts - and even human memory with all this "fake" history events in it. They claim God is capable to create us even yesterday - with all our memory of earlier days, all artifacts and history. God can do everything, you know.
Hard to say how they explain God's motivation to confuse us with all those intentionally. But that's what religious belief does to people....
But it's interesting philosophical question still (same to "Blade Runner" movie) - can we really know for sure we existed yesterday.

In my list of reasons why the Earth is over 6,000 years old, I had forgotten to mention that we found a lot of crinoids in the gravel of my elementary school, in the creek, and other places around town.  Crinoids are in Illinois, Indiana, and Australia.  My home town was a delta 300 million years ago with crinoids and 100% of Indiana was underwater at one time or another.

Apparently Spain was connected to Africa when the water level was lower.  They found a skull in Spain that appears to be the common ancestor of gorillas, chimpanzees, Neanderthals, and humans.  I can't remember whether it was 34 or 41 million years old, but I had forgotten to mention it too.

I thought that I've gotten the 6,900 years statistic from a volume specifically about the Mesopotamians.  I've heard of Blade Runner and I need to rent it to see what it's about.

On a documentary about Creationism and Intelligent Design, a specific scientist spoke and I can't remember his name.  He said that he's Catholic and an Anthropologist or Paleontologist.  He said that he believes in God, but not in a deceptive God who's putting fake fossils and fake radiocarbon results around the world to test our faith.  My wording would be that he believes in divine evolution.

You mentioned "fake" History.  One of The biggest lies in Elementary Schools in America is that Christopher Columbus discovered The Americas.  The Native Americans, Greeks, Vikings, Jomon, Japanese in Ecuador, and possibly Portugese reached The Americas before Columbus.  There are controversies about if Muslims and Chinese reached America before Columbus and somebody in North America claimed to find Ten Commandment tablets written in Arabic.  Or the tablets includes "...as I walk in The Valley of The Shadow of Death."  My Dad bought a copy of The Mysteries and Miracles of New Mexico from his trip there.  In the book, somebody found a mystery rock in New Mexico with Greek on it and they first misunderstood that it was Navajo!?  Navajo is a language related to Greek!?  The Jomon are a mystery ancestry group that do not have bone characteristics like that of Caucasians or today's Native Americans.  They may have been ancestors of white Russians and some of The Japanese.  They were named after a misunderstanding that they were from the Jomon pottery era of Japan.  Kinnewick Man in Washington State is probably Jomon.  Americans say that the founding fathers of this country were Judeo-Christians and there's more than one problem with that.  Which founding fathers?  The white ones or the Native American ones?

I'm 100 % sure that there were some sort of presence in the U.S. long before Columbus. Norsemen were in the easternmost tips of Newfoundland around the year 1000, that's been clarified a while ago, we all know that. But I believe wholeheartedly that either Romans, Greeks, Jews, Arabs (Berbers to be exact), Welshmen, Irishmen (Brendan), Portuguese, Japanese or Chinese people had their hands on the area long before Columbus and the whole Conquistador biz.

Even if they didn't reach the U.S., I'm certain they reached either Bermuda or even further south. The weather around the year 1000 was way warmer than in, say, 1500 or 1800 (sort of what we're going through now as well) ... I believe many things on this subject. Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact is one of my favorite interests.

I've also got a feeling that either Incas or people of the Mali Empire in Africa set sail for the Americas.

This is my favorite of 'em all: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Google other sites... Wikipedia seems a bit of a thin argument to come up with in a case such as this.

And let's not forget the famous magna bowl (and the pokotia monolith)

[url][/url][url][/url]

I don't know how to respond with an opinion about the validity of your claims.  I need to do more research.  This is the first I've heard of The Magna bowl and that monolith.  I googled them and they are in Bolivia.  There have been theories that Bolivia is an Atlantis.  However, Micenea, Minoa, or Crete have been called Atlantis.

Look up the Bimini Road.  If it's a sunken Atlantis, then it's a road to nowhere.  My opinion is that it's not the Atlantis the Greeks meant.  My great aunt's husband is a professional scuba diver and almost swam there.

However, The Zuni Enigma book has been recommended to me.  The idea is that the Zuni language is not related to surrounding languages, but it is related to Japanese.

100% of the human population has viruses attached to their DNA.  A tribe in Ecuador looks southeast Asian, has pottery that matches Japanese pottery from before a Japanese volcanic eruption, and DNA tests show that they have a matching virus attached to their DNA that the Japanese have.

Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of coca plant and tobacco in their bodies.  Either this supports my theory that the Phoenicians had a trading network to the New World that included coca and tobacco or the mummy evidence was contaminated in the 1800s by westerners on drugs.

A goddess in India is depicted as holding corn!?  What!?

I had heard that in Honduras, Nicaragua, or wherever that the local Natives have a legend of a hero being lost in the desert for 40 days or 40 years and people being after him.  It sounds like the legend of Moses being lost in the desert for 40 years and being chased by Egyptians or Jesus being lost in the desert for 40 days and being persecuted by Romans.  Maybe Hebrews, Christians, or Muslims reached there before Columbus and spread their story.

The Natives have a legend of a bird that got it's markings from being burnt from stealing the knowledge fire.  It sounds like they could have copied it from the story of The Greek Prometheus stealing the knowledge fire if the Greeks reached America before Columbus.

Thomas, I've heard of Madoc.  But what I had heard from my uncle was that the natives of Mobile, Alabama have blue eyes and claim to be descended from him.  I have no idea if this is plausible.

I'm one of those people who always say "you never know"... Think about it. Whatever records that may or may not have been written have either been lost in fires, burnt down by greedy Conquistadors, lost in wars, written down but never properly translated/documented anyway... I'm certain that there have been numerous peoples across the Atlantic from either side for thousands of years. I'm also tempted to believe some of all that Ancient Astronaut stuff. Call me crazy...

I think Thomas is Jesus. Or some type of space alien.

When I was very young, I had a dream. Jesus was in the dream. I was standing in line. When I got to Jesus, He put His hand on my shoulder and smiled at me. Then, the dream ended. Years later, I actually think Jesus appeared to me in the dream. He was there with me. I will always be a little child of God.

When I was very young, I had a dream. Cake was in the dream. I was standing in line. WHen I got to cake, it put its hand on my shoulder and smiled at me. Then, the dream ended. Years later, I actually think cake appeared to me in the dream. It was there with me. I will always love cake.

Here's a funny clip for entertainment purposes:

Hitler was not a Christian and these two videos proves it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Look at the promotion. Join us and get free Christian DVD! Yeah, that ain't biased at all. So pathetic.... this is like History Channel in terms of deception in that it actually claims to be a news website and has the horrible news of Fox News or CNN.

Regardless of Hitler's own personal convictions we can draw out that
1. The sway of religion and dogma leads people to do horrible things.
2. Many of the footsoldiers of Hitler who carried out the horrible actions were Christians
3. The demonizing of Jews can be thanked thoroughly to the Christians
4. This makes absolutely no case to the factual nature of religion which you claim.

You've yet to produce a single working argument for your god's existence. Talking about Hitler not being Christian, even if that were true, doesn't prove I should go pray to your god right now.

Go to the May 22, 2013 Religion thread posts onward to refresh your memory about Doug Perry and The Fellowship of The Martyrs.  The Dr. Phil video is now online if you’re still interested: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] From 38:51 to the ending, the clip of Doug Perry speaking is unusually stupid and offensive to sane people not in cults.

Curly Thornton, from the next Dr. Phil video I talked about, ran for President against Bush Sr., Clinton, and Perot to get something like 58 votes.  Go to https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr.+phil+%22Curly+Thornton%22&sm=12 and then you get the video in about 8 segments if you're interested.

This reminds me of when we discussed Jim Jones in Psychology and Sociology.  Jim Jones' cult is really great at giving people the creeps.

Hello.

In the news, creepazoid Warren Jeffs from The Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints is in and out of comas. Creepazoid Fred Phelps Sr. from The Westboro Baptist Church died today. I hope that there's as much disorderly conduct at his funeral as he creates at innocent, law abiding citizens' funerals: Protest Fred Phelps' Funeral: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here's another subject relating to religion. I watch part of a Dr. Phil episode when I eat a snack before I go to my second shift of the day. Here's a link to a forum of today’s rerun of Dr. Phil: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] First, a little bit of background. Katherine is the delusional and uncompassionate kind of mentally ill. I feel sorry for Ty's brother. Ty is the son who's still alive and her other son died in a car accident. At about 14:00 to 14:30 at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , she swears by her dead son's spirit and Ty shouts out, “DON'T BE DOING THAT TO MY BROTHER! YOU USE MY BROTHER'S DEATH AS A TOOL!” He said about the same thing as what I've been thinking and I almost feel like yelling whenever somebody swears by dead people or by God. You can't subpeona dead people or God. People use dead people and God for their own agenda. Some say that God would be a Republican and others say that God would be a Democrat. Some say that God is against abortion and others say that God forgives abortion. ... I've heard that in Greek Mythology times that almost nobody would swear by a Greek god because if they lied then they would be killed or go to Hades.

I’ve got so many things to do that I haven’t updated Wolfenstein Goodies since last month.  ***SIGH.***

No idea creepazoid is a word, lol. There are people are bigoted as the Westboro guy all over the world.

If god exists, I bet god wouldn't care what we do in this little planet of ours. I don't care what little ants do on a day to day basis.

At about 0:50 at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is a Doom 2015 reboot statue??  Then at about 2:54 to 3:40 is the Gamer Jesus display where the 2 guys discuss the Biblical video game jokes like Exodus-Box and Shroud of Tourian.

There's now Playboy Israel!: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] This is kosher? In Christianity, 12-year-old Jesus was gossiping and a teacher in the temple. Who or what could he be gossiping about? Could he have found Joseph of Nazareth's Playboy issue? Could he have been gossiping that Eve is a hot, topless chick, with big boobs, the fruit, and the snake? Gossiping about beauty queen Esther's foldout? What about Ruth in Playboy? What about Delilah?  What about the centerfold of Bathsheba in the bathtub? I'm joking.  What about The Gaza Strip Club?  I'm joking about that too.

My other joke about religion is that I bought The 50th Anniversary Edition DVD of The Ten Commandments. ...What?... Wouldn't that be about the 3,300th Anniversary Edition of The Ten Commandments?

The 1956 version of the Ten Commandments is awesome. I think World War II 3D could live up to that potential. I can imagine BJ as a Moses figure fighting off Nazis in World War II 3D.

jpb1991 wrote:The 1956 version of the Ten Commandments is awesome. I think World War II 3D could live up to that potential. I can imagine BJ as a Moses figure fighting off Nazis in World War II 3D.

Uhh... I can't.  

Dark_wizzie wrote:

jpb1991 wrote:The 1956 version of the Ten Commandments is awesome. I think World War II 3D could live up to that potential. I can imagine BJ as a Moses figure fighting off Nazis in World War II 3D.

Uhh... I can't.  

Oscar Schindler saved about 1,100 lives.  Irena Sendler saved about 1,100 lives.  I went to a Holocaust Museum in Indiana for several hours and I was confused about a poster there in a different language.  In the poster, a person like Schindler or Sendler was compared to Moses.  I'm not sure if JPB and I are thinking of the same person as the Moses of World War II.

If Moses existed, the account of baby Moses in a reed basket going down the Nile was fictionalized off of another person apparently to assimiliate the story or so that the culture could relate more.  The population of Jews traveling in the Exodus/Deuteronomy story is exaggerated.  In a bookstore in college, one of the bookstore owners told me that Moses' name first was Thutmoses, Tothmoses, or Thothmoses.  He told me that Moses was Hyksos or Hyksos and Jewish.  The Hyksos temporarilly conquered Egypt.  There's a theory with advantages and disadvantages that Saint Irine Island, Santorhini Island in Greece, was an inspiration for the mythical city of Atlantis.  One theory is the the volcano there erupted, blocked out the Sun for 3 days, and was the plague of 3 days of darkness in Egypt.  One problem with that theory would be that the Exodus/Deuteronomy story would have had to have happened 200 or 300 years earlier than traditionally accepted.

I'm going to have to post off topic less often and focus my time more on Wolfenstein 3D mods, WolfenDoom mods, and updating Wolfenstein Goodies.

World War II 3D is based on Schindler's List. Whoever saves one life, saves the world entire is the theme of both the movie and the video game. I can imagine BJ as a Moses and Schindler figure. In the 1948 episode of the video game, BJ saves Israel from Neo Nazis.

Regarding the first post - as anti-religious/anti-New Age activist who spends alot of time every day debating religious people on facebook groups and read/research more and more about the matters of everything between science/atheism/skeptics and religion, I say you do a nice job there...not the best one though. You don't give the full and the best answer to many of religious claims - I could do a better job, but it's just a matter of experience.
Can give you some more directrons there....

4. Time began at the Big Bang so asking what was before it is irrelevant. And anyway is not different from asking what was before God. If Universe can't start from nothing without a creator - because of it's complexity - why is God, who must be more complicated than the Universe in order to be able to create - why God can start from nothing, and who made God and what was before God?
Beside an unprovable statement without any testable prediction and without any existing evidence - how does "God made it" differs from "Spagetty Monster" made it (it has a book that claims he exists? Batman has a book too) ? Both claims have the same internal logic and amount of evidence, and I can invent 1000 more such claims in an hour. Moreso - how "God theory" explains anything or contributes anything about our knowledge of the universe, it's purpose and origins? And how you can connect it to "Bible God"? Even if Creator exists (but somehow didn't show in any thing any divine planning or creation so far, on the contrary - VERY bad designs only that can only be explained by evolution and physics ) - unless you can prove Bible is linked to him somehow (finding Bible copy on Mars could be a nice proof to have) - then all YOU have is a unproven undefined Creator who created "something" we don't know how we don't know when, for a purpose we don't know (and you call this a Intelligent Design THEORY?), and we don't know his properties, will, laws, morals, plans or purpose for us - (and why creator of Universe should have morals or desires which are very human thing).
Morewso, God is somehow obsessively busy with "Each of us is a tiny being, permitted to ride on the outermost skin of one of the smaller planets for a few dozen trips around the local star."
...can go on but will stop here for now..........

5. The definition of a theory is a hypothesis that explains ALL the existing scientific facts on it's matter without even one to contradict it, that has been tested over and over, makes testable predictions, have evidence to support it - and is being able to predict well future discoveries without any discovery to contradict it up to this point of time and no better theory that exists and can explain those facts better.
"Wanna believe" - is not a theory.

6. Name me one piece of evidence against the bible.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


7. "If science keeps changing all the time, it has no meaning and cannot predict things with 100% certainty. The universe is so amazing, there must be a designe"

> 7.1. Name me one big scientific Theory disproven in the last...50-100 years. Not improved - disproven.
They were improved to cover more situations like high speeds (Relativity), small scales (Quantum Physics and String Theory), high energies...This didn't disprove older theory...can you name a Disproven theory? Theory that was found completely false?

> 7.2. Science is not changing (in like "rewriting itself" every month or year or starting from scratch) i it's evolving. Because it can evolve, unlike claims "God made it, end of story...". Every theory predicts things and can be disproved or replaced by a better theory, by definition of Theory - as EVERY Theory - is explanation combining a collection of scientific facts...scientific facts can change only if originals were fake, explanation on the other hand can be replaced by better ones that are better supported by evidence is makes better predictions.
As theory MUST make testable prediction - every new experiment, test, observations, discovery, object found - is a test "live or die" of the theory - the longer time scientific theory manages to survive with new findings only supporting it without any scientific fact to disprove it - the lesser is the chance of a Theory being "wrong" or disproven in the future, only improven further (on existing basis) and more perfected to include more scenarios. That's why I'm so sure Evolution, Big Bang and such theories (that are proven from so many independent sources for such a long time including direct observations, physical evidence, many right predictions and computer simulations) won't be disproven ever and is almost a scientific fact as this point. But it's still a Theory be definition....Theory is the as close to our truth about the universe as it can be in science.
Despite of what I just said - very serious and long-survived lots-evidenced Scientific Theory is not immidiately thrown to trash with every single evidence to contradict it (sure if it doesn't contradict it's main postulates, but not only) - as Theory to become one and survive for a significant time - has ALOT of serious evidence to support it, and any new single evidence can either be a fake (which need to be carefully checked) - or something that might require a small fix in existing theory....just as you don't change your whole harddrive for just one bad sector found...unless in a consistent and repeatable way more and more such "bad sectors" (contra-evidence) are unveiled to the point when the whole theory is in serious danger. Sure existence of alternative theory that makes better job in explaining overall evidence (including new ones) - can speed up the demise of previous theory, for a better one.

> 7.3. "Designer Statement" This is statement of ignorance - "I don't know how things around me work, don't want to learn science - so everything seems to be perfectly designed and so is made by God, I'm walking like a stupid 3-year old girl smelling flowers and hugging trees as they are sooo perfect (?)" - If you'd learn science - you'd KNOW all designs we met and know so far are VERY flawed, not only show no sign of intelligent design - but no intelligent designer would EVER make such if to make things from scratch, even relatively bad modern designer would still do a better job, that makes more sense. This include every biological creature/bodypart we know (including human body, human eye and such) - just google it It's uneffective, deeply flawed, causes diseases, problems.....VERY bad design.
But moreso - things are "flawed" in a way only evolution can explain (in a very detailed and proven way), only when there is unplanned change to existing system (with minimum changes to existing systems), and not design from scratch....Lot's of flawed patches to old software/bodypart - not an intelligently created software from scratch for it's today's purpose. Only evolution explains this.
So the world we see around PROVES evolution and total lack of any intelligent design.
In EVERY place we go. Only total ingnorance can see ANY "perfections" in biological systems we know, or our place in the Solar System or within the Galaxy.

Regarding so-called" complication of things...another state of Ingorance, just as the "perfection" statement. The less you know about science - the more wonderfully complicated things aound you are see by you.
You'd rather believe in some magical Entity creating this complication on 6 days - rather than to believe series of SMALL gradual changes over LONG time for purpose of survival....this is most weird.
Yes, for most minds, and sure the narrow religious minds is hard to imagine SMALL changes over LONG time with every small change already by itself gives each time small survival benefit for the animal - over LONG time, much longer than you can imagine. But you can't imagine distance of light -year either...so LACK of ability to IMAGINE something to long or big or small or fast for our everyday experience - is not a PROOF for a heavily supported by multidisciplinary evidence scientific THEORY to be WRONG. This is just you not knowing your own limitations.
Regarding "probability"....this is pure bullshit. First - probability of event already happened is 100%.
To know REAL "backwards" probability of event already happened - you know to know what is the chance for a particular configuration - and how many "throwing of that dice" happened before it, how many configurations are there..for example - to know what is the Chance for life of Earth to exist - we need to know what is a chance for Life to exist, how many planets are there etc etc..... To know what is a chance for a Universe to be the way it is - we need to know how many Universe are there in total and how many attempts to make a Universe that may have failed being "wrong" configuration...how many of possible configurations can contain life......and we DONT know.
Yes, small peice of sand on the beach is 1000000...organized atoms in a very particular form and shape, a chance for such is 1/100000000000.... - if we're to make ONLY 1 peice of SAND.
But as there are 10000000000000000.... peices of sands in the world, each with different configuration - that is NO MIRACLE in complexity of that particular sand peice. Moreso - there is no reason why it should or should not be the way it is...moreso - the same question can be asked about ANY random sand peice atom configuration. There is no special purpose or miracle it it's complexity...
Chance of "6" is in one single dice throw is 1/6, chance in 100 throws is almost 100%. So number of configurations is not a proof. Just like in the already disproven "Bible Code" conspiracy.

"Watch complexity" - stupid statement.

1. Watch is not a biological system that has genetic ability for random changes + ability to procreate, to evolve genetically, has no genes - so no Evolution can occur (not to mention the small time period you are able to observe it to exist)...Watch has no system that can evolve it - and so it's good reason to think it was created by someone - ESPECIALLY as you've SEEN it's made my someone, can go to a watch factory and SEE it's being made, know how it was made, by who, your direct life experience tells you WATCH is made by someone....

2. Would you say the same if there would be 100000000000000 different "watches" in the world (some are very different or not looking like watch at all), each with different configurations from the most simplest one and just one watch like this one? Would this be as impressive?

.........
...

Well, let's finish this post with some good links to watch and that I'm subscribed on facebook for:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Dark_wizzie typed:

Tolerance

8. The bible is harmless. ...

...

...

All presidents of USA have been Christians. Why? Because it's unofficially required. There isn't a separation of church and state, and people know it. What this is, is intolerance to a certain degree.

My response: It's not that simple.  Look at presidential quotes from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] .

...President Bush himself said that he doesn't care for or trust atheists. ...

My response: This is almost misleading.  I knew the quote that you're talking about. It's actually former President George Herbert Walker Bush.

My response to your info about Krishna:  Tell an Indian about the Christ and Krishna similarities and he/she will wonder what you're talking about.  I think that info about Jesus and Krishna was combined together by missionaries in order to try to get them to convert.  I can see similarities to Christ between the other characters from "The God Who Wasn't There" on Youtube.  Billy Graham and Pat Robertson said that Jesus is the only one resurrected.  Apparently, they've never heard of the Phoenix, Lazarus, Izanani, Izanaki, Orpheus, Erydice, Persephone, Demeter, and others.  I think that it's The Gospel of Matthew where 550 rise from the dead.

I wanted to clear up some confusion.  I might stop by this thread 1 or 2 more times, but I don't want to spend several hours doing it.

About the supposed similarities of Krishna, Mithra and Horus to Jesus: what is the source? I'd like a reference to actual religious texts, not a Youtube video.

The OP is 2 years old. I don't think I even included the George Bush line in my book anymore. Some lines have been omitted for one reason or another.

Although the Krishna line might still be in there. I'll look into it when I have the time. If you are willing to read the OP you should help proof-read my book, lol.