Religion

Hi, wuts dis?

Dark_wizzie

I went their way. I met a сhristian sect, zen buddhists, hare krishnas, atheists, satanists, witches, etc. In the end, I returned to the Orthodox Church.
So, I think so - every believer must realize his own choice.
If not then unfortunately there may be questions that have long been answered
By the way - the most important question and the answer in life - family, children, health and work
.

What pisses me off on this subject:

* Islam
* Catholicism
* Judaism
* Islam
* Islam

I never could cope with religion. Glad it hasn't caught hold up here for centuries. Those who dig it - fine by me. Just shut the hell up about it and leave me out of it.

Akuul wrote:Dark_wizzie

I went their way. I met a сhristian sect, zen buddhists, hare krishnas, atheists, satanists, witches, etc. In the end, I returned to the Orthodox Church.
So, I think so - every believer must realize his own choice.
If not then unfortunately there may be questions that have long been answered
By the way - the most important question and the answer in life - family, children, health and work
.

I tend to let people believe what they want. But sometimes, and I understand it's the dumb people that usually speak the loudest, but sometimes, I see people go our of their way on a scientific video to slather their religion bullshit about how the scientific video is false, and a work of Satan. You don't see scientists busting down the doors of a church to say 'Actually, your religion is bullshit'. People think they know science and they are not a scientist. They make uninformed decision and draw conclusions from shards of the whole truth.

In my opinion, science is the way to go. Science is rationally and wholly reasonable. It opens up new frontiers and new opportunities. It taps into our fundamental drive to discover.

Thomas wrote:What pisses me off on this subject:

* Islam
* Catholicism
* Judaism
* Islam
* Islam

I never could cope with religion. Glad it hasn't caught hold up here for centuries. Those who dig it - fine by me. Just shut the hell up about it and leave me out of it.

I like to get a conversations when possible, a debate of sorts. The only time it bothers me is when the other guy spews out 'science is a work of Satan', or 'I'm right because I'm right', or 'Why the fuck are you arguing with me?!?!?!?!?' kind of stuff. THAT bothers me deeply. But if you want to show me why you decide blind faith is ok, and you are able to discuss it in a non-accusing way, then that's great. Discussions have value because I learn things and see things from other perspectives.


Right now my stance is that you cannot really be a scientist and a believer in, say, Jesus Christ without contradictions.

Sorry man, I personally never get anything out going deep into this - mainly because I can't. I've grown up in a society void of religion. The only time we hear anything here is when Muslims get pissed off about something about their lame prophet, and that's hardly happening here anyway. I just don't care for the subject at all, most of what I hear isn't the solace, the spiritualism and the comfort people find in religion. I've only heard of all the many evils it also represents, and I just cannot grasp religion can be at all positive.

I'd hate to be preachy, and I rarely am. But this is one subject where my stand is clear: No religion would be the way for me. Does it mean I want to hose you all down with this? No. Go do whatever the hell you like. But in saying that, there's still a chance people blow it out of proportion and eliminate all who do not agree with them (Islam is a perfect example there).

That's how I feel. Being raised in a creepily politically correct Western European society and feeling this way, well, haters just gonna hate.

The Bible is the word of God. I am a Christian. I remember a lifetime movie about a boy named Bobby who was gay. His mother was really into Christianity. Bobby ended up killing himself because the so called Christian mother was not displaying the character of Jesus and being too legalistic. She ended up becoming an advocate for gay rights which I do not agree with. The Bible still says we are to show Christ's love. The mother was not showing the love of Christ at all and said to Bobby that he is no longer her son which resulted in Bobby committing suicide. Let this be a lesson to Christian parents, if their are any Christian parents out there with a gay family member, show the love of Christ.

Also Eric, the verse that talks about stoning Children to death refers to adult children. The verse refers to the child being a glutton and a drunkard. This refers to an adult child, not a young child. Young children were not held accountable back during Biblical times.

jpb6891 wrote:The Bible is the word of God.

Not proof.

I remember a lifetime movie about a boy named Bobby who was gay. His mother was really into Christianity. Bobby ended up killing himself because the so called Christian mother was not displaying the character of Jesus and being too legalistic. She ended up becoming an advocate for gay rights which I do not agree with.

On what basis, except 'God wouldn't like that', or do you not think for yourself? Sure, two guys having sex won't fufil the goal of replication, but doesn't make it WRONG per say. Playing video games won't help me get laid. Doesn't make it WRONG per say. Also, being crippled is equivalent to being gay in the old times: Neither helps replication and they just die off, or their genes do not get passed on. Yet we treat injured people nicely and gays, not so nicely. One is born gay, that don't choose to be gay.

The Bible still says we are to show Christ's love. The mother was not showing the love of Christ at all and said to Bobby that he is no longer her son which resulted in Bobby committing suicide. Let this be a lesson to Christian parents, if their are any Christian parents out there with a gay family member, show the love of Christ.

Now you're talking sense.

Also Eric, the verse that talks about stoning Children to death refers to adult children. The verse refers to the child being a glutton and a drunkard. This refers to an adult child, not a young child. Young children were not held accountable back during Biblical times.

There goes 'showing love'. Children, adults, whatnot. Murder is murder. We are justifying 'murdering people at THIS age is ok, but before this age it's not ok'.

This is very depressing.

The adult children were abusive. They broke the law. Stoning them was justified. It is like back during the James Town days when a person stole a chicken, the person would be hanged for stealing the chicken. Same thing here. God told the Israelites to wipe out nations. They did what God told them to do. I agree with President Obama on targeted killing. I hope Romney wins though.

It just got more depressing.

This is fun, though. I hope Romney pulls through as well. He's a Latino, after all.

We'll certainly be getting a lot of laughs, that's for sure. He might even be funnier than Bush *gasp*.

jpb6891 wrote:The adult children were abusive. They broke the law. Stoning them was justified. It is like back during the James Town days when a person stole a chicken, the person would be hanged for stealing the chicken. Same thing here. God told the Israelites to wipe out nations. They did what God told them to do. I agree with President Obama on targeted killing. I hope Romney wins though.

That makes no sense.... hanging because a person stole a chicken? It should be, you can be killed for killing a chicken. Are you seriously trying to use religion to justify committing crimes? If you're going to make another 50 posts about 'God said this, god said that' without any backing other than 'God said it to me' or 'The Bible says so', you're killing this thread.

You need to prove the Bible can be trusted before you state the Bible as proof, and saying 'God talked to you' is never proof.

Stoning children no longer applies. Jesus came and this does not happen anymore. Go to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for more information. One of the users said "For one thing, it isn't talking of a typical teenage rebellion but more like if a parent were to turn their child over to the authorities of today because they committed a crime. It was the Capital punishment of the time and served the purpose of keeping the nation of Israel who were God's people of the time clean and free of criminal activities you could say. And by child it doesn't mean a literal child since the behavior mentioned is one of an adult child. It certainly does seem harsh especially in an age when spanking could mean the removal of a child from a home. But God requires children of all ages to respect their parents and that doesn't change even though the way it is handled is changed. God has given us the secular authorities of today to keep order. That was the government of the day and its Capital Punishment law."

Once again, the way handled was immoral and unacceptable. NO excuse for that. Once you justify that, it's only a matter of time until the crusades are considered nessesary and holy, and we should all kill in the name of god. Then you become a murderer. Sounds stupid, but it's a slippey slope right there. Also, if you're able to disprove the first 3 Youtube videos which I posted at the start of this thread, you'll net major respect from me.

I don't know; stuff such as this has happened all the time. It's not only to do with religion. People do this 'cause of inner evil, it's always been here, all the dicked up Muslims still stone people to death and it's 2012.

This has always happened. Evil conquers good, evil conquers religion and religion is doomed to fail then.

Thomas wrote:I don't know; stuff such as this has happened all the time. It's not only to do with religion. People do this 'cause of inner evil, it's always been here, all the dicked up Muslims still stone people to death and it's 2012.

This has always happened. Evil conquers good, evil conquers religion and religion is doomed to fail then.

You'd figure we'd be doomed if the Bible said 'be nice!' and the Christians are not, but we're even more doomed if the bible encourages killing of children

Look, any old written rule is filled with ****. The bible, the Talmud, the Qu'ran, probably even Bhagavad Gita and the Eastern religions have their dark points, though being relatively peaceful (at least compared to Christianity and Islam) and attractive to stoned hippies searching for peace, protected by the capitalism they hate.

Tell you what, the Bible and the Qu'ran and all that other stuff weakens in comparison to this stuff... This is pure evil, 'cause it's automatically integrated into your very conscience over here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thomas wrote:Look, any old written rule is filled with ****. The bible, the Talmud, the Qu'ran, probably even Bhagavad Gita and the Eastern religions have their dark points, though being relatively peaceful (at least compared to Christianity and Islam) and attractive to stoned hippies searching for peace, protected by the capitalism they hate.

Tell you what, the Bible and the Qu'ran and all that other stuff weakens in comparison to this stuff... This is pure evil, 'cause it's automatically integrated into your very conscience over here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I know, but I want to see what Jpb comes out up in response.

Yeah, I'd no idea he was a religious nutter. I just thought he liked to type in that manic robotic way, sort of like stathmk does.

What's with that [Only admins are allowed to see this link] stuff all over this thread?

I don't know. I think no matter what link it may be, it will be auto-censored or something. My link was a Wikipedia page.

That's weird, I'll see if I can fix it later when I have time.

Should now be fixed.

HOORAY! I made a video.
Yeah, audio quality is **** and my face is crapped up, but it's the words I say that matter the most.

I like you DW

You're a bright thinking guy (with logic, knowledge, critical thinking etc), especially for your age. You remind me of myself in that age.
Sure I passed a long way since both in experience and in book reading in which 18-year old can't compete with an almost 34-year old, and my conslusions and opinions are based on much much much more sources and books...but this is sure a good way to go.
Keep it up!

doomjedi wrote:I like you DW

You're a bright thinking guy (with logic, knowledge, critical thinking etc), especially for your age. You remind me of myself in that age.
Sure I passed a long way since both in experience and in book reading in which 18-year old can't compete with an almost 34-year old, and my conslusions and opinions are based on much much much more sources and books...but this is sure a good way to go.
Keep it up!

Thanks, there is always more to learn!

Dark_wizzie wrote:Thanks, there is always more to learn!

That's the spirit

I dedicated so many years of my life for study of science, religion, philosophy, spirituality...
Bible is mostly based on ancient Sumerian, Ugaritic, Akkadian and such mythology and sources, so to have a bit more detailed opinion regarding religion you should probably study the pre-Bible sources and cultures, so you can see not only why religion is scientifically absurd - but exactly what were the sources it's based on, what those sources originally meant or tried to depict (in it's original cultures), why, how things evolved into the Bible and modern religions.
Trust me - there is so much to learn there.

You can start with books of Kramer and other famous researchers of Sumerian and ancient cultures of Mesopotamia.
Too bad you can't read russian, could give you links and books.

Science-wise you probably know which books to read. In your age - probably popular science by famous authors (and astronomy books), as you probably didn't learn Quantum Physics and SuperSpring/Spring and Chaos theories just yet in detail as you don't have the math basis yet.

doomjedi wrote: as you probably didn't learn Quantum Physics and SuperSpring/Spring and Chaos theories just yet in detail as you don't have the bath basis yet.

Yeah, you can watch videos about it on Youtube, but they're not going to bombard the viewer with the complex mathematics involved.

This is the only type of "religious" people that actually piss me off.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What Kalka Fadfadf did is horrible. As Christians, we should not wish Hell on anyone. I wish you would become a Christian Eric because I believe that Hell is a real place. Kalka Fadfadf is not displaying the character of Jesus at all. I did not even watch your entire video all the way through. What Kalka Fadfadf did was wrong. Kalka is a sinner and needs to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

jpb6891 wrote:What Kalka Fadfadf did is horrible. As Christians, we should not wish Hell on anyone. I wish you would become a Christian Eric because I believe that Hell is a real place. Kalka Fadfadf is not displaying the character of Jesus at all. I did not even watch your entire video all the way through. What Kalka Fadfadf did was wrong. Kalka is a sinner and needs to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

Fat chance. The majority of Americans are ignorant and want to stay that way. "Coincidentally", the majority of Americans are Christians and a giant majority of them believe in some religious institution. There's no proof and the claims are ridiculous.

Some people note how tiring and repetitive this kind of stuff becomes: in the end, the ignorant will remain ignorant. Very few will give a damned. They have made up their minds to be ignorant. No amount of evidence will sway them. It's like conspiracy theorists and UFO catchers, only of course, the general population accepts it.

Religion isn't separated from state in America, it's be naive and dumb to believe that. George Bush actually said " No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots ". What's sad is that presidents must be Christian, and atheists are not trusted. My bad for having common sense and a functioning brain. So sorry.

Hey, why do you not trust government, but believe in the bible? Why do you not believe in psychic powers but believe in scriptures written before people knew what germs were?
It saddens me.

The bible isn't even original...


I've so gotta watch that movie when I have time. Bill Maher and Neil Tyson, awesome human beings.

Not to mention Richard Dawkins. Also a guy to check out. I think what Bill Maher's doing is all right, but, man, he can be annoying. Even to a heathen like me.

And don't go around pitying yourself saying Americans are stupid and religious etc. etc... They're nothing compared to the entire Islamic belt (from Bosnia to Borneo) - that's where the main evil in religion lies. Not to mention even here in Europe. All those Catholics down south... All screwed up. Not to mention they keep whining about not being able to retire at the age of 45 working for their sleazy bent garlic government... Lazy fucks. Get the fuck out. The Prostetants (though half or less actually go to church, go figure) have long enough held up their sleazy asses. Time to make the great divide!

Before 'the man' nails me away (these days it's not popular criticizing sociopolitical topics if they deal with Islam) on a terror and/or Racist charge (suddenly very popular up here the last 16 months), I'd just like to say that I'm glad jpb6891 is one of those more light-hearted Christians who asks us to believe in a peaceful manner inspead of spilling it all over us like the guy you just posted from YouTube.

Islam's main problem is image, they have a small number who feel the need to protest the **** out of everything and let it escalate into violence. Unfortunately, the way the media portrays it is that these people are representable for the whole religion, while they are in fact more akin to European skinheads or anarchists. In other words, not the majority.

Which is true for pretty much everything, a small minority always fucks it up for the rest. While I personally think religion is bs and people need to get over it, I do think most mean well.

ronwolf1705 wrote:Islam's main problem is image, they have a small number who feel the need to protest the **** out of everything and let it escalate into violence. Unfortunately, the way the media portrays it is that these people are representable for the whole religion, while they are in fact more akin to European skinheads or anarchists. In other words, not the majority.

Which is true for pretty much everything, a small minority always fucks it up for the rest. While I personally think religion is bs and people need to get over it, I do think most mean well.

I think you're partly right. It's just I haven't experienced anything positive with Islam whatsoever. For a year I went to a school located near about the obligatory ghetto Northern Europe has created filled with the parallel universe that is Islam/Filipinos/Anyone-too-weak-to-break-free and it was always trouble. My dad had a mate at work from Afghanistan. Now, this guy... He actually worked for the Taleban. The things he did, the things he saw... One day he just had enough, fled the whole thing through a mined cemetery (mostly Women and Children were buried there or just put there, go figure) and never came back. This was in the 90's, BEFORE 9-11 and the US-Afghan war (shortly after the commies had their try at Afghanistan). Today, he hates the religion; Islam, he said, only casts a dark shadow, an evil religion truly in need of reformation. They never had a Martin Luther, remember that. They never had. It's very, very bad. He said that the only solution for the war in Afghanistan, terror etc. was to bomb the whole area. It may sound a bit rude, but given his history, I think it was all fair to mean that.

I can understand, especially if you have dealt with such a bunch of extremists. That is something you can never get out of your system.

Thomas wrote:Not to mention Richard Dawkins. Also a guy to check out. I think what Bill Maher's doing is all right, but, man, he can be annoying. Even to a heathen like me.

And don't go around pitying yourself saying Americans are stupid and religious etc. etc... They're nothing compared to the entire Islamic belt (from Bosnia to Borneo) - that's where the main evil in religion lies. Not to mention even here in Europe. All those Catholics down south... All screwed up. Not to mention they keep whining about not being able to retire at the age of 45 working for their sleazy bent garlic government... Lazy fucks. Get the fuck out. The Prostetants (though half or less actually go to church, go figure) have long enough held up their sleazy asses. Time to make the great divide!

Before 'the man' nails me away (these days it's not popular criticizing sociopolitical topics if they deal with Islam) on a terror and/or Racist charge (suddenly very popular up here the last 16 months), I'd just like to say that I'm glad jpb6891 is one of those more light-hearted Christians who asks us to believe in a peaceful manner inspead of spilling it all over us like the guy you just posted from YouTube.

Oh yeah, I've seen videos with Richard Dawkins speaking in it.
Bill Maher I find to be quite a funny guy.

doomjedi wrote:

Dark_wizzie wrote:Thanks, there is always more to learn!

That's the spirit

I dedicated so many years of my life for study of science, religion, philosophy, spirituality...
Bible is mostly based on ancient Sumerian, Ugaritic, Akkadian and such mythology and sources, so to have a bit more detailed opinion regarding religion you should probably study the pre-Bible sources and cultures, so you can see not only why religion is scientifically absurd - but exactly what were the sources it's based on, what those sources originally meant or tried to depict (in it's original cultures), why, how things evolved into the Bible and modern religions.
Trust me - there is so much to learn there.

You can start with books of Kramer and other famous researchers of Sumerian and ancient cultures of Mesopotamia.
Too bad you can't read russian, could give you links and books.

Science-wise you probably know which books to read. In your age - probably popular science by famous authors (and astronomy books), as you probably didn't learn Quantum Physics and SuperSpring/Spring and Chaos theories just yet in detail as you don't have the math basis yet.

I want to write a longer article on religion. Can you provide some points?

Hi Ricky!

Yes, environment is everything. It happens very early, no doubt there, but one isn't born gay. I do not think so.

Some say we are all born as a bi-sexual.

Chokster37 wrote:

Dark_wizzie wrote:One is born gay, that don't choose to be gay.

I call BS on this. Is one also born an alcoholic, or serial killer? At what stage of a baby's brain development inside the womb does this occur?

Well from what I know, there is a genetics/biological part in homosexuality, and their brains work differently. One does not choose to have their brain work differently on that level.

Also, do you choose to like girls? Do people teach you to like girls? No? Then, by that logic, people don't teach other people to be gay. You were born with a preference. Two people, same household, different sexual orientation, but same environment. If that's not innate, I don't know what is.

Do people teach you to like girls?

Well yes, it's the norm everywhere. Stories you're told, tv, commercials etc. Definitely heavily implied.

Everywhere except Sweden (where else)...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And I don't know if you're taught the boy-girl line everywhere. I think TV is plenty on same-sex stuff, same-sex celebs etc. etc... At least over here. They do not teach you that it is wrong, and that's just the way it should be. Just as long we won't get it rubbed in our faces, 'cause after all, the majority of people are straight, don't forget. I'm saying that it's a fair deal that the homosexuals and lesbians get some air time and respect, but it must never get to the point where it is directly imposing (thereby reclaiming the hatred and bigotry it has craved in the past).

ronwolf1705 wrote:

Do people teach you to like girls?

Well yes, it's the norm everywhere. Stories you're told, tv, commercials etc. Definitely heavily implied.

Don't tell me you like girls because people on TV liked girls. Because that would be weird. I don't think people teach other people to be gay, either.

Where did I say that? Please don't jump to conclusions based on nothing. Just saying that it's the norm, and that some (some, just in case you didn't read it) conform to that norm.

ronwolf1705 wrote:Where did I say that? Please don't jump to conclusions based on nothing. Just saying that it's the norm, and that some (some, just in case you didn't read it) conform to that norm.

Perhaps I should have quotes Chokster instead. But my point still stands.

SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM

Common Arguments for Religion

1. If God didn't exist, where would our morals come from?

Answer: This question is actually an insult rolled into a question. You are saying that human beings are not able to define what is good or bad without religion. Hey, I'm agnostic. I'm not out killing people. I don't need to be afraid of divine punishment to do good things. I do good things be I feel like it. I'm quite offended. Religious people have done horrible things; Child mutilation (both female and male), caused wars and crusades, forced people to be baptized, etc. One can argue that athiests and agnostics have done bad things, for example Hitler. But Hitler's religious affliation did not cause him to do what he did. If you say that Hitler thought the way he did because he lacked morals, that makes no sense because the Catholic Church itself has done multiple inexcusable acts. Excluding child molestation, look at Rwanda. Converted the crap out of them, told them condoms increased chance of HIV. So here we have a HIB outbreak, and people are being told 'just abstain! Be loyal to your wife/husband!' and not to use condoms. Gee, I wonder why there was a problem in the first place? Like it or not, the Catholic Church has done so much damage. After the shove religion down your throats or killed you, they ensure you have HIV, THEN they offer some money to you to look like the good guy. Good guys, they are not.

2. But Eric, religious belief is my evidence! Here I am telling you, I believe in the metaphysical world.
Imagine if a friend of yours runs up to you, tells you that his life changed when he was destined to marry Jessica Alba. The conversation would go like this if I were you.

Me: Why do you believe this?
Him: You don't understand. This belief gives my life meaning. I now know my purpose in life. It's It's to be Alba's husband. This belief has made me a better person. Now I'm very patient and I treat kids very well because one day I have to raise it with Alba.
Me: *Insert profanity*
Him: You can believe whatever you want, but I don't want to live in a universe where I don't marry Jessica Alba.

Now replace marrying Alba with believing in God. Or, imagine a dude that believes Elvis is still alive. Hey, I know this isn't a scientific god, but it's a faith thing, it's a metaphysical thing.

You be came Christian because you were raised in a Christian family. The same goes on for other religions in other countries. This demonstrates that people's beliefs are shaped by their surroundings. If there is an absolute truth, it shouldn't be able to be switched based on your own country of origin. Also, sit back and think about this. God made a son in a virgin's womb. who then went on to be killed and resurrected. This same god is apperently all-knowing, and loving. This same god tells others to kill other people. This same god wants to save us all. This same god won't save us and will send us to eternal torment if we don't believe in him. To fix this, this god decides to let a few people see him, and write books about it centuries later. 2000 years later, it ends up being illiterate bullshit. This all-knowing god never thought about a better way to demonstrate this god truly exists. This god REALLY wants to save you, but he wants you to believe in him without evidence, through 'faith', and this god will kick the shit out of you if you don't. How do you know this god is for real? Well, this book says so. Has anybody actually went to heaven? We don't know because people that leave for heaven can't come back. We just have to have 'faith'. Of course, being all-knowing, this god cares deeply about your sexual thoughts, habits, and desires. This god thinks a man with a man is an abomination. Clearly, this god has made flawed human beings. This god wanted to make people in the image of himself, but failed, horribly.This 'merciful' god will send billions of people into hell, where they will wish they had died because it would take torture to a whole new level. When it said 'you should only worship me', it was because people believed there were other gods at the time. So this god is a jealous god. Sound familiar? Sound ridiculous? Yeah.

3. Religion is useful, though.

Answer: You don't believe something because of its utility. Religion can be useful, but have no actual content. It functions like a placebo. And there's a reaosn why doctors don't give out placebos to patients to make them 'feel better'.

4. What happened before the big bang, then?

Answer: Nobody knows for sure. There are theories, such as the multiverse. Sounds weird, I know. But the universe doesn't care about your common sense. If you were born in the 18th century and I told you that this cup I have right here is actually energy in another form, and that I can unleash the energy and theortically make a huge-ass bomb, would you believe me? No. And here's the point: Religion is old. It is very old. Because of this, the crap we get from the bible are mostly accepted simply because they are old. Modern (non-shitty, non-religious, real) science is very new when you look at the human timeline. That is the reason why science is not trusted. It's new, it's whacky, I don't know about it (and you don't), get it away from me, I don't want to believe it. What strikes me is the arrogance of religious people who act like they've posed a question that destroys agnostics and athiests by asking about scientific theories they don't even understand.

But let's assume for a second, that we have literally no clue about what happens before the Big Bang. First off, you are in no position to disprove the leading theortical physicists of today. (And FYI: Most of them are not religious. It's because they know how to think for themselves and can smell BS from a mile away.) The complexity of it all is enough to destroy both of our respective brains. Second, even if we had no clue, that doesn't prove there is a god. Before people had no clue about what lightning was, and just pointed to the sky and said 'IT'S THE GODS!'. It was used to make sense of the things that occur, such as diseases. As time passed, people grew a pair and started thinking for themselves. Going against the antiquated ideas of the church was dangerous, though. Regardless, eventually we knew that the world wasn't flat, the sun didn't rise and fall around the earth, etc. If you want to define god as what we don't know, then god is an ever-shrinking pocket of scientific ignorance. Be prepared for the day that god ceases to exist altogether. My advice to you is this: Get a book, read about what evolution really IS. While its main principle is simple, the entire thing is very complex. Stop trying to disprove it, and read on it. Get educated about it. THEN, if you still doubt it, debate about it. The difference between science and religion is that science isn't afraid to admit science is wrong. That's how people move forward. That's the problem with religion: its ideas are antiquated and struggling to keep up with a world where science is booming.

At least Lucifer didn't create human beings with free-will, intelligence, and curiosity, and then curse them and all of their decendents (yet unborn) for using those very traits.
"You want to expand your minds, learn about the universe, and improove yourselves? How DARE you?! I created you to be puppets, not peers!"

Speaking of arrogance: The idea that god cares about YOU, but not other animals, that god created man as image of God, is just ridiculous. It's very arrogant and self-indulgent. Oh, I'm so great, I must be SPECIAL! Jesus Christ will probably come to earth in my lifetime! I'm that important!

5. All you have are theories? That's just bullshit, it takes less faith to believe in god.

Answer: The definition of a theory is a hypothesis that has been tested over and over and seems to fit. It's not a hypothesis. It's a simple idea whipped out because scientists have nothing better to do. You can't say 'I BELIEVE' in the word of god. The bible is not evidence to back up your belief until you prove the bible to be true. Faith, by definition, is believing without adequate proof. I call that wishful thinking. The human brain is very prone to malfunction. Very often, we think we are thinking rationally, where in fact we are not. We are also prone to mental illnesses and hallucinations. When all we can sense are electrical impulses interpreted by the brain, it's not hard to see why some people sense false things. Sometimes this leads to people feeling insecure. Or maybe sometimes the awe and wonder of the world leads people to believe there is a god - which in itself is horrible logic. It's always the less educated ones that claim to be able to disprove evolution or prove god.

Sidenote: For those that want to bring up 'The Matrix' paradox - That we all live in a world that's not real, and we can't find out for ourselves what the real world is... that may be true, but there's no way to prove it. So I'll toss that aside for the purpose of this article. Another brought up idea is what I call the 'Stargate Idea', from the sc-fi, Stargate, where aliens use technology to pose as gods and enslave mankind. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from divine presence.

6. Name me one piece of evidence against the bible.

1. Krishna in India 1000 years before Christ. Carpenter, born of a virgin, baptised.
2. Persian god, Mithra, 600 years before Christ. Born December 25th, performed miracles, resurrected on the third day, known as the lamb, the way, the truth, the light, saviour, the messiah.
3.Timothy 2:11-12 : "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man,she must be quiet."
4. Deuteronomy 22:23-24 : "If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you."
5. Exodus 21:7 ""If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do."
6. Genesis 38:24 "About three months later Judah was told, “Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant.”Judah said, “Bring her out and have her burned to death!”"
7. Multiple religions of the Meditteranean region a thousand years before Christianity had similar tales.
8. 1280 BC - Egyption Book of the Dead describes a god named Horus,s on of the god Osiris, born to a virgin mother, baptized in a river, later beheaded, tempted in the desert like Jesus, healed the sick, fixed the blind, walked on water, raised the dead, had 12 disciples, crucified, and resurrected after 3 days.
9. There hasn't been a shred of evidence for Moses' story. After having god kill every firstborn son to get what Moses and 'god' wants (why doesn't god just change the pharoah's mind? Much less bloodshed, this is mass genocide), Moses and his company wanders the desert for 40 years. Not a single shred of evidence left to prove it. And they were out for FOURTY YEARS.
10. Do I seriously need more than this? I'm too lazy to fish out more, but I think you get the point.

7. The bible didn't mean that literally.

Answer: ORLLY? Because where did it say 'don't take this literally'? In science do we say 'the big bang started the universe... (in fine print) nah, just kidding!'? Because it sounds like you are picking and choosing which part of the bible to take literally: the part you WANT to take literally. And when you do that, everything can mean anything, and when that happens, everything means nothing. Speaking of which, no, evolution and the Christian belief where god created mankind in 6 days and rested (the almighty god is too tired!) on the 7th conflicts with the theory of evolution. You can't say 'for god it's only 5 days where in fact for us it's billions of years', because that's not literally said in the bible.

8. The bible is harmless.

Answer: The bible isn't harmless, it's obsolete. How can people objectively investigate the world when they believe everything is made by god? How do you demonstrate intelligence when you fail a basic test of intelligence and believe in huge, fantastic claims, and state with certainty what happens after death (if you are going to heaven after death, go kill yourself...), and be intelligent? Something doesn't ring true. Also, you weren't BORN a Christian. You were TAUGHT to be a Christian. That's not freedom of religion. You're having religious dogma throw in your face at an age before you can rationally think for yourself, and abadoning that faith later on in life isn't just distressing, it simply won't happen for the majority of them even when the evidence says otherwise. Every time a parent teaches their child to believe in a religion, they are forcing it upon them. Yes, they can technically choose to say 'it's bullshit', but do you recall saying that when you were 3-5 years old about Santa Clause? No, because it simply doesn't happen. It's like telling a kid, 'Hey, I'll rape you, ok?' and when the kid says 'ok' because the kid doesn't know what 'rape' means, that makes it ok because the child 'choose' to allow it. No. If you want to believe in a space daddy, that's one thing. But if you want to make others believe in space daddies, you're like a cancer to society.

Don't forget the child mutilation, crusades, HIV, etc. Think about it: Good people will do good things regardless of religion. Bad people will do bad things. But it takes religion to make a good person do horrible things. Think of one thing done by a religious person in the name of religion, that is good, that a non-religious person can't do without. Now do the opposite. Now think of one wicked thing a religious person did because of religion.

All presidents of USA have been Christians. Why? Because it's unofficially required. There isn't a seperation of church and state, and people know it. What this is, is intolerance to a certain degree.

Religion has no harm? Atheists are discriminated against. America is a Christian nation. Every president has been Christian. It was founded under Christian principles. It dominates our way of life in America. President Bush himself said that he doesn't care for or trust atheists. Atheists get discriminated. But ok, let's just look at the general population in terms of effect. Crusades. Inquisition. Persecution of the Jewish people. Injustice towards woman (AKA half of the population). Forced conversion of indigeonous people, especially South America. African slave trade. How about the whole entire Middle East? Christians shoved rheir religion into little kids' throats. In Africa, people are taught not to use condoms in places with the worst HIV rates in the world. Pastors actually lied saying that condoms increase the chance of contracting AIDS. This wasn't the motion of a few crackpots. The Catholic Church agreed. Gays are condemned not for that gays have done, they have been condemned for what they are. You're made in the image of not? Oh no you're not. You're a faggot. And you can't join our church and be saved. You will now die in eternal torment. Not only that. Religion, being an old relic from our past to explain previously unknown phenomna, will hinder the scientists trying to understand it. If the human species is to rise to its full height, we cannot have the giant majority of the world deluded.

I can't say religion lowers your IQ-- I can say that those with lower IQ tend to believe in it. The most religious countries are the poorest. That's a fact. (USA is primarily Christian. What is our debt now?) People with the lowest IQs tend to be religious. There was only one test where atheists lost to theologists... That's in a test where Atheists lost... because they were more nervous... because their brain activities showed they actually gave a damned about finding out the answer to the question. The theologists breezed through, no pressure, because they can't be assed to care.


9. If you don't believe in a specific god, what is your point to life? What is there to live for?

Answer: The universe is vast. Have you seen the pictures from the Hubble telescope? It's extremely complex, and there's a certain beauty; a beauty from the entropy, the clutter. Looking at people, how they behave, why the behave... for example, why you choose to believe in bullshit-- I find that interesting. Frustrating when people fall short of rational thought, but always cheering on for people to think for themselves. With that in mind, from all the wonders of the sky, do I give two shits about a burning bush? No. We have microscopes now that can literally see moecular bonds, peering into the world at a previously unprecenteded scale, to understand the world of quantum mechanics and chaos, and the beauty and mysterious stemming from that chaos. Also the idea is fundementally flawed, that if I die, all things mean nothing. Some argue that what I've done to my loved ones, the time I've spent and the impact I've imparted on them is quite literally priceless. But to think that everything means nothing because everything that has a beginning has an end... that in itself is dumb. By that logic, all of your experiences amount to nothing because they've past. No, by the time I've died, I've had so many experiences, so many surprises, so much love, hate, jealousy, friendships, knowledge, to the point that I know my life has been lived to its maximum. The material things I've possessed over the span of my lifetime may be immense, but nobody can take away my experiences and my legacy lives through the people I've touched.

The world is so interesting, so infinite, so grand. Why do I need a book to tell me how I should live my life? The sublime beauty of the universe outshines any and all works by man - the bible, the Qu'ran, etc. Dare I ask for more? So when people ask me why I find a purpose to life being an agnostic, I go back to my point: The world is beautiful.

10. If science keeps changing all the time, it has no meaning and cannot predict things with 100% certainty. The universe is so amazing, there must be a designer.

Answer: And a book is the word of god, THAT has absolute certainty? You cannot say anything is 100% this or that because there is always a possibility of error. That's the difference. Scientists are not afraid to admit they were wrong and to question things, whereas religious leaders assert this way is the right way because they argue from authority, not truth. By your logic, nothing is for certain, therefore nothing in the entire world means anything because it is not certain. You cannot give an exception to 'god' because it feels nice to do so. Because answers change, it doesn't mean all other answers are equally as valid.
Now, you claim that the universe is so amazing it must have a designer, and because we cannot figure the precise details of every single thing related to the start of this universe, god must exist. That's an argument from ignorance. It's logically and fundementally flawed. You can say 'this looks like it is designed. Therefore, it must be god', where we have evidence about how old the universe is, and you're dismissing that. You can't have it both ways. You require evidence, or you do not. If you do, you lose, If you don't, then you don't care for reason and you are deluded.

11. What about Pascal's wager? Religion hasn't done any harm, it makes people better.
Pascal's wager forgets the fact that all other religion have their own gods. So if every religion has equal chance of being real, picking one is like trying to win the lottery. (A non-existent lottery.) In just Christianity alone, there are over 300 major divisions of Christianity. Another fundemental flaw with Pascal's wager is the assumption that worshipping a god, you lose nothing if god isn't real. If god isn't real, you don't go into heaven or hell. Your time is limited, and you've wasted it praying for a non-existent god. Also, if you believe in a god because of the Pascal's wager, it's not real belief or worship, Therefore, you're still going to hell. Think about it. If god were omniscient, wouldn't god recognize the real reason for your faith? How about this, let's start an Atheist's Wager. Treat people nicely and try to make the world a better place because you are a good person. When you die, if there is a god, god isn't stupid enough to send you to eternal torment because god knows you've been a good person.

12. But I've felt god! I've seen miracles!

Answer: The human mind is prone to hallucinations. Try to convince a schizophrenic that their hallucinations are hallucinations. I've tried. It's futile. Also, 'I've felt it' isn't proof. Why the hell should I believe YOU because you said you felt something? It's questionable as to why coming back from the brink of death is an act of god. Again, there's no evidence to prove that, and to say that I don't have proof is an argument from ignorance. Burden of proof rests on the guy making the claim that God had offspring through a virgin girl, who later on came to heal people and do crazy shit, died, and got resurrected 3 days later. It's also funny to see people miss the fact that god apperently cures cancer. But never amputated limbs. Why? Because the second would actually require divine intervention, the first would not. Here's a thought for you. Why is it that when you are sick, you go to the doctor and use the technology brought about from science, yet when it comes to the origins of the universe, you use 'faith'? Why don't you 'faith' away your problems?