SonderKommando Revolt

First topic message reminder :

latest screenshots from my "in work" mod:

doomjedi wrote:Yes I am
This is mod made very carefully, with huge attention to details and realism. Also it'll have one of the largest VSWAPs around

How many MB?

I don't think the whole mod would take alot of memory, hard drive wise. Many people are still on dial up, and I see very few (if any) big mods taking big storage spaces.

I meant the vswap.
Not the whole mod

Currently VSWAP is 2.92 MB size.
But there is still alot of art to be added to it in the next days.

VSVAP art count is currently (will be larger in final version)
Textures: 256
Sprites: 748

My moha's vswap is:

2.26 mb

And Revenge!:

2.38 mb.

Impressive as well

the VSWAP for doomloh was just crazy... 10mb+... |:

Well, but that's just DOOM art....
We are talking here on almost all - original art

doomjedi wrote:Well, but that's just DOOM art....
We are talking here on almost all - original art

One point for you... ;P

Thanks

Sounds good. All original art is by, you Doomjedi? If game have all original art, big respect, Doomjedi Thats make this mod interesting, I mean ( game have original graphics and all new enemies and stuff). This game have real facts? (I mean base, history)? (sry, my english is bad) Or just realism? But best luck this mod!

Valts wrote:Sounds good. All original art is by, you Doomjedi?

I didn't say that. I said - almost all.
Regular enemies are not original. We have 1 new original enemy - ChaingunTurrert Dude.
Bosses are new but most are beased off Wolf3D Bosses as a base. 1 Boss is original, not based on Wolf3D Bosses at all.
..btw in Eridu for example we have not only "all original from scratch" Bosses but 1 new "from scratch" enemy.
Almost all of the scenery is original, but a few are based on Blake Stone scenery and some other games. There is many art "from scratch" though...including animated ones. CampFire, Exploding and Destructable barrels, animated prisoners etc...all new animations. Wolf3D scenery is mostly represented by on-floor skeleton and bonepiles...maybe some bloodpools. But that's mostly it. Nothing "important". The game looks like all-original, at most parts.
Textures and Parallaxed skies are original. Beside the floor textures that is taken from other games.

have all original art, big respect, Doomjedi

Many textures were ripped from real camp photos (with editing, recoloring etc...), but that still makes them original in the way we use this term here. Some were made from scratch, reacreating the walls in real photos.
Thats make this mod interesting, I mean ( game have original graphics and all new enemies and stuff).

This game have real facts? (I mean base, history)? (sry, my english is bad) Or just realism? But best luck this mod!

Well, it's based of real revolt, yet sure taking it to a larger scale (to make the mod more interesting) and (if you play well ) changes the outsome to "positive" in a way
Quote from Wikipedia:

There was a revolt by Sonderkommandos at Auschwitz in which one of the crematoria was partly destroyed with explosives. When the camp resistance warned the Sonderkommando that they were due to be murdered on the morning of 7 October 1944, they attacked the SS and Kapos with axes, knives, and home-made grenades. Three SS men were killed, including one who was pushed alive into a crematorium oven; and some prisoners escaped from the camp for a period. They were recaptured later the same day. Of those who did not die in the uprising itself, 200 were forced to strip, lie face down, and then were shot in the back of the head. A total of 451 Sonderkommandos were killed on this day^{[citation needed]
There was also an uprising in Treblinka on 2 August 1943, in which around 100 prisoners succeded in breaking out of the camp [sup][2]}, and a similar uprising in Sobibór on 14 October 1943^[3]. About 50-64 of the prisoners from each camp survived the war^{[citation needed]}. The uprising in Sobibor was made into a factual film, Escape from Sobibor, starring Rutger Hauer, amongst others.[/sup]

Ok, thanks for information. I was in Auschwitz 2004 year (tourism), must to say, creepy place (conditions was terrible)

For me, I want to make new sprites and enemies, but I have no idea how to make a new enemy. It's impossiable for me to make new sprites. Too hard. All the paint jobs.

First, you can base them off existing sprites, withsome creativity and recoloring.
I think in this case WLHacks techniques are better than mine to create art from scratch...notice how he works. He seem to start from 1-color general outline of object with it's different parts. Then he just fills them up with a texture pattern logical for metal, wood and such materials...the results are astounishing IMO.
Me ..sometimes I look at a photo and then start recreating the obnject on it....but with enouph experience you can do many art without looking at nothing...including bloodplats, bones, skulls....and many more...
It's alot of practice..nothing to scary...and it's alot of fun..to make a new art...to make your mod a unique look.
Just try.... notice the shadowing though, it upgrades a sprite alot...right consistent shadowing...just put a light point and image how it would be lit in real life.

Yeah... well some things you can't exactly positivly get better at just by trying harder. I think running is easier because in order to run faster, I just try harder. But creating maps and sprites actually requires skills.

I don't think so. But that's just my oponion.
IMO it's experience, imagination and persistence

Dean's latest Sonder level is a very good one Here are some teasers:

that's amazing.

Thanks

Looks great, but the grey sky walls with the night sky doesn't fit IMO.

I tend to dissagree.
Though the wall were made to fit both snowday and night parallaxed skies, and if I'd made them just for the nightsky - I could made them to fit more.
But I don't want to make sky-related textures, but textures that can fit all of the skies.
I have one night-specific texture for trains though.
But even existing texture - looks bad only when really close to the player...even a bit of distance make it look good IMO.

Ok, of course I understand you can't make for each level different textures.

Those screenshots are impressive i cant wait to play this
Keep up the good work!

Thank you

All of the team is working hard on this mod.
It'll have plenty of secret features and surprises

and still I try to make music for this mod.

lilmanjs wrote:and still I try to make music for this mod.

I tried to make midi music for the Auschwitz map in Voxelstein 3D:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tlnnmvgnx50

The tempo/pace/speed is slow and sad and the song is sobbing stac-ca-to ;p

Feel free to use it if you like.

Status:

Art: 100% (beside some unplanned additions for specific requests of mappers)

Coding: 90-95%
Assuming Tricob enabled the new enemies as he claimed to, we have 0-1 coding tasks left (one inventory) + final wrap-up of the mod (inserting intermission screens and such) + 10 bugfixes, most of which can be considered "small ones", Tile Mirror bug can be described as "largest" of them, as trucks don't display correctly.
So...we are nearly finished.

Mapping: 19 made out of 27 planned = ~ 70% (+ a few made secret levels) + 1 old map existing but still under heavy revisiting
Which means we have total of 7 maps left (+ one to be revisited, "Intersection"), on 2 mappers - Dean and Ron...meaning average of "4 maps per mapper" left.

Is it done?

I think he would have said so. According to DHW this is almost done.

It's done when it's done.
And I don't mean that in a Duke Nukem Forever kind of way. But I'm not going to set a release date or guess when it's done, because I can't tell. But you'll see when it's done.

It's not done, believe me, you'll know when it's done!

Couple more months I'm predicting, but trust me, it's gonna be worth the wait!

Holy..

The teaser trailer for Sonder has been released. You can see it HERE

Release date is locked in for 01/01/2011.

doomjedi wrote:I tend to dissagree.
Though the wall were made to fit both snowday and night parallaxed skies, and if I'd made them just for the nightsky - I could made them to fit more.
But I don't want to make sky-related textures, but textures that can fit all of the skies.
I have one night-specific texture for trains though.
But even existing texture - looks bad only when really close to the player...even a bit of distance make it look good IMO.

This just makes me reminisce and think about the way BrotherTank managed to make transparent walls. Such code would benefit all these issues.

I seriously cannot wait to play this dude. It looks stunning.

Kotaku.com have done a review, based on the trailer and some answers from DoomJedi, you can read it here;

Kotaku.com - SonderKommando Revolt review

SonderKommando Revolt will be best mod ever. At least until Lair of the Mantis comes out, that is

You're right there giftmacher.
I'm going to build a time machine to reach 1 January 2011

Thank you, guys

Nexion: I heard that Sonder is overhyped and actualy not that awesome.
: Wait till doomjedi hears this. He will ****smack your ***.


Nah, we all love you, doomjedi. That and Sonder. We love Sonder. Set a bar to beat for other mods to surpass in coding, ok? No gimmicky weapons and no glitches, please.

"Inclusive popcorn."

Until then, time-machine out to 1/1/2111.

Hey guys I guess you havent heard...

Sonder is sitting in limbo due to some issues. Whether itll be released as a full game now is uncertain. You can see it all on the DHW thread..

I regret to announce that SonderKommando revolt will be benched indefiniately and will not be released on 01/01/2011 as previously advertised.

Team RayCast apologises for this but due to unwarranted attention and the fallout from that the mod will not be released at this time. This is not related to the production of the mod in any way, the mod would be 100% completed and released on the promised date if it wasn't for other factors.

Hopefully once things blow over a little we can release Sonder as it was meant to be for everyone to enjoy. Thanks for your understanding.

- Team RayCast

If you have any questions please leave them here and I'll do my best to answer them.

Dean wrote:I regret to announce that SonderKommando revolt will be benched indefiniately and will not be released on 01/01/2011 as previously advertised.

It is possible to learn the reason of it? Or this exclusive decision of one person?
I long waited this MOD. Told about it at the Russian forum..
.

The first messages were even earlier..
.
And how now to be???

Dean wrote:Hopefully once things blow over a little we can release Sonder as it was meant to be for everyone to enjoy.

Then perhaps not to let out at all this game? If you start to edit MOD.. Will start to delete any moments.. What sense in it? And how many as early as years to wait? to me reminds that that occurs in Russia.. Promise much and then simply close a door. I can understand when so politicians arrive.. But why game should suffer?
As it seems to me..
IF
citation from DieHard Wolfers DoomJedi has officially cancelled the release of the project (?)
Despite it game should be let out.
IF
citation from DieHard Wolfers..and some of the comments - made the team to feel really uncomfortable. (?)
That Game to be simply obliged
Let's assume that tomorrow you will accuse of propagation of nazism by means of Wolf-3d.. Also what then? You will close all resources and remove all games??

Akuul wrote:

Dean wrote:I regret to announce that SonderKommando revolt will be benched indefiniately and will not be released on 01/01/2011 as previously advertised.

It is possible to learn the reason of it? Or this exclusive decision of one person?
I long waited this MOD. Told about it at the Russian forum..
.

The first messages were even earlier..
.
And how now to be???

Dean wrote:Hopefully once things blow over a little we can release Sonder as it was meant to be for everyone to enjoy.

Then perhaps not to let out at all this game? If you start to edit MOD.. Will start to delete any moments.. What sense in it? And how many as early as years to wait? to me reminds that that occurs in Russia.. Promise much and then simply close a door. I can understand when so politicians arrive.. But why game should suffer?
As it seems to me..
IF
citation from DieHard Wolfers DoomJedi has officially cancelled the release of the project (?)
Despite it game should be let out.
IF
citation from DieHard Wolfers..and some of the comments - made the team to feel really uncomfortable. (?)
That Game to be simply obliged
Let's assume that tomorrow you will accuse of propagation of nazism by means of Wolf-3d.. Also what then? You will close all resources and remove all games??

It's their mod, ultimately it's THEIR choice whether or not they wish to release it. Sure, it sucks, but there are very good reasons. Furthermore, they have stated it might be released in the future. So chill out.

Zombie_Plan wrote:..It's their mod, ultimately it's THEIR choice whether or not they wish to release it. Sure, it sucks, but.

I understand that the Sonder-Mod someone's property.

Zombie_Plan wrote:..but there are very good reasons.

Or the few negative comments on the internet this is the reason???

Zombie_Plan wrote:..Furthermore, they have stated it might be released in the future. So chill out.

And these words how to regard??? -> citation from DieHard Wolfers - > doomjedi:..We just cancel it. Cancelled things can theorethically be recancelled.. Theorethically??? And practically through how many years?

Damn shame. I admit the subject matter is a little contentious (I've always been a little ambivalent about my feelings towards games involving real world pain and death) but I really felt that this mod came from a genuine place and carried with it true inspiration. Still, I'm sure you've made the best decision for your team.

I shall quote this proverbial post first...

Nexion wrote:Once upon a time human beings discovered the pizza and the power of fire.

yawn, "best"? nah.
Maybe best one catching fire like that. Hype till death and praise in both directions. Kinda just mind-toasting.. hm i think i'm getting sleepy. Where was i? Oh i know. Refreshing to see that it gets hit by some criticism.
Femstein, Sonder, To Heaven and Back?
Controversial and have only provocation written all over it. Burning fingers while trying to catch attention with such stuff. I don't mind such "shock! it's not nice" things, just wondering about the excuses. First its the most realistic thing ever invented since someone has changed lightbulbs on this game. Now it's just a fantasy fun thing. And so on. Playing with fire is fun, till it burns.

I want my pizza extra crispy, cheers.

Sometimes it's not always the best idea to OVERHYPE a project. It usually results in getting TOO MUCH attention. Look at Nate Smith. While obviously he did some wrong things as far as not giving full credit, his mod got A LOT of attention. Obviously this is a different situation, but perhaps if this mod was not hyped so much and plastered in so many places over the internet, maybe things would be different now. It's sad really, because so much work was spent by so many people.

I think the lesson we ALL need to learn from this is not to TALK too much BEFORE any project is released. Let the release speak to the people. As Nexion said, you play with fire, eventually you get burned.

Hopefully their mod will be released in some form down the road. Anyway, I've said my wisdom for the year and I am done now. Thank you.