Wolf3D.net, and Discord

Edit: New url!

Hey guys! It's been a long time since I was here, but I've missed the entire Wolf3D Community while I've been gone.

I apologize if this isn't the right place to post this, if there's a better place, feel free to move the post!

Anyway, I've been a bit disheartened since returning to Wolf3D to find most of the news websites have suspended updates, many unexpectedly. As a result, I've decided to revive an old project of mine, in a couple of ways:

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First, Discord.

It's been great talking in Discord with other fans of Wolf3D, but I wanted to offer a server specifically dedicated to Wolfenstein and it's sister games. You can join the Discord Server using https://discord.gg/Fee7PBY

Discord is a free and very lightweight chat program that works in browser, and has both a desktop and phone apps.

Feel free to join, chat with others and relax!

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Second, Website.

This is a much bigger thing, but here goes. There are a few goals with the project:

1. Obviously, attempting to be a regularly updated aggregate of news, mod announcements, and interesting Wolfenstein related things.
   
2. Provide a more easily searchable database of mods, and provide a way to discover random mods.
   
3. Provide a mirror download for mods, and restore mods that only lead to dead links elsewhere.
   
4. Find a way to adequately showcase video content.
   

With these things in mind, I have the following so far (design/colours to be tweaked): http://wolf3d.net/
Currently the site is attempting to house current news, and expand it's mod list, which sits at http://wolf3d.net/wolf3dmods/

The idea there is to make it easier to find mods you want by being able to sort the games list, and type in search terms to find select titles or authors, as well as showcase random mods at the top.

I'm working on the website a little bit each day, adding more mods and attempting to fill in any blanks I see. There's a roadmap in the About section on WolfSource that shows general plans and in-progress aspects of the website.

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Second, part 2

If you've read this far, thank you so much. It's been a bit of effort getting all of this together in 40 degree heat, but I'm happy with how it's starting to shape up.

I hope people find this project useful. I invite any suggestions or critique for it so I can build the site in the right direction. I am one man with his own ideas.

If you have a mod or news you want to display on the website, there are submission links on the website that will send it to me.

Cheers guys, hope everyone is well.
-Zombie

The website has now transitioned to it's permanent hosting at wolf3d.morezombies.net! The domain might be simplified later on, but this link should always work.

The move seemed smooth enough, but if you find anything broken, let me know. I'm currently working on updating the image links.

It's nowhere near done yet, but the mod list is growing. It's now over 200 strong x_x

In a quest to keep things organized, a new section has been added to the site: http://wolf3d.net/wolf3dmods/addons/

Additional Content is a section for those mods and map packs that are actually built off of other mods; such as Klooni, Spear Resurrection, the bonus maps Team Raycast makes, etc.

The goal: Additional Map Pack releases tend to get sidelined after initial release, as they get mixed in and drowned in the plethora of standalone content available for Wolfenstein 3D.
By giving it a special home, I hope to highlight and bring them to more people's attention, and maybe point interested parties in the direction of making their own.

To accomplish that last part, there's a (WIP) slider at the top of the page that cycles through standalone games that have modding tools, or have made their source/mapinfo available.

It's got a small list of content at the moment, but as more mods are added and I identify more add-on content, it'll naturally expand.

I hope you find this useful!

It says that the discod invite is expired

OOF.

Thank you. It should have been infinite. Fixing it now!

EDIT: It just spits the same link out, which seems to work on my end. Looks like it's refreshed or something, so it should be okay!

Yes now it worked, thanks

The website has been plodding along.

The contest at https://wolf3d.darkbb.com/t3608-contest-the-key-to-success has several entries which is exciting, and the majority of total conversions have been added to the mod list.

There are resource pages up now, with music and graphics people have made for use in other people's mods (with proper credit of course).

For people who are looking for information on editing programs, there's now a couple of pages dedicated to suites like WDC, and Map Editors.
Thanks to Chris and Serpens, the MapEdit page is fairly comprehensive, with all but 2 known versions of the program available for download.

Finally, there's now a page dedicated to modding with ECWolf. The page lists the editors that work with it, and a few guides and tutorials. Tutorials for ECWolf are a little rarer, and I hope to see that change as time goes on.

As usual, I'd love to hear any opinions on the website, any area, etc.

I hope everyone is well.

Pages:

http://wolf3d.net/ecwolf-modding/
http://wolf3d.net/editing-suites/
http://wolf3d.net/map-editors/
http://wolf3d.net/resources/gallery/
http://wolf3d.net/resources/game-music/

We have a new URL, so links have been updated in the thread! The simplified URL should make things look cleaner and nicer.

Along with that, hosting has been increased so now mods are hosted directly on the website. For now, TCs have not been uploaded, but all other Wolf3D mods have their own dedicated download links. TCs will be updated in the next few days, then I'll get to adding missing items to the lists.

I'm using Windows 10 with Google Chrome to view wolf3d.net and there's some sort of error message in the lower right corner.

Ah, that's probably the recaptcha stuff needing to be pointed in the right direction. Cheers man, it wont hurt anyone in the meantime but I'll fix it when I can

I've got download links set up for most Wolf3D TCs and Mods that I have listed. I'd say this puts it about halfway for getting mods onto the website. I have to sort a few of the unorganized mods I have (listed but hidden), then go over and start to fill in gaps. 

I've added some resource pages for mods. While ImageWorld is currently unattended there's a Gallery with user-submitted art and sprites, as well as a page for music, and another for ECWolf-specific resources. There's quite a few things in those pages already thanks to people like AstroCreep and Dunkelschwamm. 

http://wolf3d.net/resources/gallery/ 
http://wolf3d.net/resources/ecwolf/ 
http://wolf3d.net/resources/game-music/ 

As a cool side-thing too, with Chris and Serpen's help there is also a little page with the old Wolfenstein 3D FAQ at http://wolf3d.net/pushwall/wolfaq/ if anyone is curious about it

New news already.



New website design, which I think is much nicer. Along with that, there's now a new section on the site; Job Boards.

You can access the board at http://wolf3d.net/jobs. The intention here is to connect projects with modders. You can post jobs needed or services offered. I'm hoping this proves useful to people who need help with aspects of their games.

I'm keen for feedback on all aspects of the website as usual, as well as seeing what Wolf3D related stuff people create!

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I'd like to tack one more thing onto the end of this: http://wolf3d.net/write-for-wolfsource/

I'd very much love to host the musings of people in the community. If anyone has thoughts on anything whatsoever, I'd love to talk about possibly posting it on the website. Wolf3D mapping, post mortems of mod development, humour posts, etc.
Even if it's just a niche thing (Ie Can Creator Maps Ever Be Good, The Redeeming Qualities of Operation Body Count, 5 things I wish I knew before I starting making this project), there's really no limit to the sorts of things I'd be interested in hosting and honestly, most likely super interested in reading.

There's been a few changes going on in the website, mainly fiddling and adding features, and trying to get things cleaner and looking nicer. The amount of items in the navigation menu is being tidied up in particular. Removal of redundant or unnecessary links, and the general condensing of it.

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I've been having fun creating specialized splash pages for each of the "active" source ports we have:

http://wolf3d.net/wolf4sdl/
http://wolf3d.net/ecwolf/

And of course, one for Linuxwolf's newly branded ECWolf fork, LZWolf http://wolf3d.net/lzwolf/

My basic goal here was to create pages that could be used to give a brief overview of the engines and important links with a nice presentation. I'd love to know what more people think about these.

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The mods have all been accessed from the single page for Wolf3D, with each type in it's own tab you could flip to on the page.While I liked setting it up, it's proven slow in the long run, and I don't like the amount of clicks it takes to get to what is wanted.
Changes are underway in regards to how the site is presenting games and mods. Now, different mod pages will be found under http://wolf3d.net/mods/ with each game or type having it's own subpage. So once these changes go through, blake stone mods will be found at wolf3d.net/mods/blakestone

Currently "available", are the ECWolf and LZWolf mod pages, at http://wolf3d.net/mods/ecwolf and http://wolf3d.net/mods/lzwolf respectively. Over the next week the rest will be converted.

In addition, you might notice the removal of the screenshot carousels. I'm still on the fence about whether or not to keep them, so opinions on the new look pages is encouraged. At the very least, accessing less mods at once should turn out to be faster.

The other change is the eventual site-wide soft-integration with the wiki. Serpens, Dunkelschwamm and everyone else have been doing such an intense and indepth job with their project, it's awe-inspiring.
On the ECWolf and LZWolf mod pages, clicking on a mod thumbnail (Unless marked by a *) will bring up an integrated info-box with the mod's associated wiki page. The idea here is easy access to find out what a mod is like, beyond the name and title screen.

These changes are slowly rolling out, so I apologize for any hiccups occuring during the transition. I'm hoping these changes will lead to a nicer experience on the site.

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Finally, on a smaller front I've started the Wolfsource YouTube channel. The channel won't (at least for now) be a source of original content, but rather an aggregator for what I hope is interesting Wolf3d related content. Going to http://wolf3d.net/youtube will take you to the channel. In the channel you'll find videos from around YouTube showing off interesting and entertaining Wolf3D content, as well as full playlists of Let's Plays and Long Plays of mods.

I'm uncertain if this will ultimately prove useful to people, but I do hope so. I'll be going on now and again to maintain it, and add content as deemed fit (With input from others, if they so wish).

Zombie_Plan wrote:On the ECWolf and LZWolf mod pages, clicking on a mod thumbnail (Unless marked by a *) will bring up an integrated info-box with the mod's associated wiki page. The idea here is easy access to find out what a mod is like, beyond the name and title screen.

Lies. Doesn't work for me on any browser or OS. Wouldn't a simple <a href=""></a> around it work better?

Princess Peach wrote:

Zombie_Plan wrote:On the ECWolf and LZWolf mod pages, clicking on a mod thumbnail (Unless marked by a *) will bring up an integrated info-box with the mod's associated wiki page. The idea here is easy access to find out what a mod is like, beyond the name and title screen.

Lies. Doesn't work for me on any browser or OS. Wouldn't a simple around it work better?

It would, but take you straight to the page. I'd like to get this to work if possible. It's odd it's not working on a lot of things (Including my phone), but I'd like to work out a way to get it to function as intended.

It's been a while since I updated this thread, but a lot has happened in the interim.

First, there's the work-in-progress that is the Wolf3D.net FAQ. At current it is a collection of small guides to get started with Wolf3D modding, including basic setup of coding environments and some editors.

I plan to expand it with more troubleshooting solutions, guides, and q&as, as well as expand the number of topics covered (Try to cover old source ports, for example). This is longterm though, as the main focus at current is getting the new site up and running while time is plentiful.

On that note, the Wolf3D.net website itself. I am currently building a whole new version from the ground up, trying to create a smoother and more purpose-built experience.

I've been working on it for a while and as things get nearer to publishing, I'm starting to write about the changes that will be taking place, as well as the goals and reasons behind the decision.

The first post is here discussing the Game Search functionality compared to current, with future posts being written as things become ready.

I joined the Discord channel just now. I won't be active at all times - naturally. But if there's anybody willing to "talk", hit me up. I'm the one with the mutant avatar.

Zombie_Plan wrote:...

The first post is here discussing the Game Search functionality compared to current, with future posts being written as things become ready. ...

I just now read the link.  Will you still have The Pushwall Archives, and games for Rise of The Triad, Blake Stone, and Super 3D Noah's Ark?

The Pushwall archives will be worked into aspects of the website, probably.

Wolf3D will continue to be about all the games on the engine.
What is changing though is these things are going to stop being spread over 12 pages and be one filterable DB. So in theory you could click a couple of search filters and you'll have only DOS Blake Stone mods, or in the distant future, LZWolf OBC mods.
A more flexible system for games, basically. As things happen (Let's say, someone implements multiplayer in one of the engines, a new source port comes out, or a new game/mod comes out and people start actively modding THAT), its simple to implement those things now.

Im working through a few key issues on game pages and user profiles atm (css sucks sometimes) but when these things get closer Ill be able to explain in more detail.

When did the forum at http://forum.wolf3d.net/ crash?  Today, I thought it said ERROR 403.

About your problem with the WolfSource wiki thing and the server dilemma. You can drop your politics claiming repeatedly that everything apart from your view is a blatant lie and fake news. There are two sides to a coin.

You still believe in your utopia of uniting everyone and everything, taking growth over everything. It's a concept which can never work. Neither in a big community, small community nor in your local neighborhood. The whole server thing is a development that has changed the tiny landscape that wolf3d modding is on each side and it will continue to shape it in the near future. It's a small note on a page
but with some heavy impact. Many wolf forums can into existence over dramas, such as this one.

You can't invite all kind of people from vastly different communities, like zDoom or Wolfenstein New Colossus, and expect all of them get along. People interested in old-school wolf modding are going to clash with people blasting into the yard having no interest in any of it and start to throw around their new furniture. Were you never in school or on parties where some groups just didn't click with each other?

If you want to bring the hammer down on everyone about so called trolling/jokes/criticism/disrespectful behavior/harsh words/offensive behavior, then be fair and also look at the people that you kept around or defended. A few of them were just as "bad" in their own way. Some claims are justified, some not. There was plenty of stupidity and aggravating stuff on each side.
You were tolerating it for months, as admin, while never really listening to any advice by me and other moderators. Your idea of solving things was to write private messages to everyone about hell knows what on each occasion. Not that moderators could have done much anyways (kick or delete single messages) since you kept everyone on a leash and had to report/explain even the slightest action to you.
Funnily, you kept the one moderator around who was doing the least of all and usually just chimed in at the end of each topic.

You banned someone for simply being associated with Atina!
Or the Astro-Atina-Aurora-Chris clusterfucks when you ended up banning Chris for life instead of everyone or no one. Yet, if anyone wants to come back they should apologize to you nicely. Of course people are gonna get riled up about it and will treat you not nicely. Same people you have an issue with now helped you with your projects before or came up with fresh ideas for the place.
I helped you some with the website, forum, your mod, your server. Me and Atina also donated you some money on paypal to keep the site going. Heck, she contacted Ron at beginning to get your DHW account back and get a more stable discord server going.
I faded into silence towards the end because there was no point and outside of ecwolf scripting there hasn't been really anything wolf related  anymore.

Aurora has admitted being behind a lot of the drama several times and yet you keep ignoring it and defend her. If that's not dense or ignorant then congratulations, you are one rare type of a diamond.

You can moderate the place as you like, it's yours after all. Same goes for other places.
As for your ban. Majority voted for it and it was decided over several days. So it's not like someone just banned you out of the blue. I guess you can always write an apology if you feel like coming back.

Pretty tired of Atina being constantly thrown under the bus. Seemingly it's not ok to troll/bully/criticize/insert-any-other-word-that-suits-you some but it's ok for others to do that to her no matter what?
Outside of her shell, she is a pretty sweet and friendly girl more often than not. The people around her act on their own free will and she has her own mind. She gets along nicely with some people and not so nicely with others. Everyone knows someone they like less or more. Some express it, some not and some deal with it differently. Towards the server breakup you also kept treating her like a kid for not speaking in such lifeless politician language like you.

The side opposing you isn't perfect and has plenty of flaws, often wild and rough, but your side is not the flawless, righteous thing you make it sound like through your neutered and embellished depictions.
Such views can steer things over the cliff, even if they sound super positive (on the surface).
And something being wild and offensive isn't necessarily bad at heart.
Wolf3D, Doom, metal/rock music, horror movies, all their fans, all condemned at some point. Weren't Wolf3D and Doom super-edgy games for their time made by edgy 20 year olds going at each others throats creating controversies and heated fan chats? They probably would have been banned these days.

The page on the wiki can be expanded massively in detail to include all of the details from each point of view or it can be kept generic and brief. Those two choices seem the most logical. Majority of your changes about the site are still there or are they not?
Changing a controversial part to suit your view better is obviously poking the hornet's nest.
As i said at the beginning, it's changing the landscape to some degree. You can discuss the importance, even if it's just stupid internet drama.

Doubt you will listen this time but hey, i guess i can at least amuse the lurkers.

Guess I should say my piece on this, having been a pretty central figure in the events

Firstly, on communities.


"the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common"
"a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common"

If WolfSource or my past attempts at creating communities are anything to go by, then a community must have a focus interest and a culture. That means communities are exclusive by their very nature and some people will naturally not fit in - otherwise you just have a space with disconnected individuals. A space - either a hostile space where it's FFA deathmatch between different people, or a safe space where nobody talks nor shares anything personal lest it's deemed too controversial.

There is nothing binding random people together into a community just because they are into something Wolfenstein related. Even within a single game's fan base there are usually different sub-cultures. Let alone the different games - they are decades apart, along with their technologies, gameplay styles, and the age and generation of their fan bases - and have almost nothing to do with each other. People do not just get together to "chill out". I used to gather all of my online friends to a Discord channel to hang out together, but these places soon died for the same reasons WolfSource is dead now. There was no community, as in sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common.

The WolfSource Discord had life because it had two thriving communities in it. These were not random people, but two distinct sub-cultures. While these groups were partly at odds with one another, I don't believe they were destined to go conflict so badly. Proper moderation from people who command true authority, and (at least a little) fear over the owner's wrath would have kept the excesses in check. As was already detailed well enough in the above post, which I find myself agreeing with, that never happened.

People quickly learned they could get away with almost anything, except for saying the N word. Many of the few times the police showed up - I'm talking about you, Zombie - it was usually to break up a discussion that was "controversial", even though it had been friendly in nature and none of the participants had attacked each other. (Not that anybody listened - we just kept talking.) When actual trolling and personal attacks took place, your intervention had the authority of a doormat sliding through a mangle roller. The action was belated and asymmetrical, and allowed the situation to boil over. This only caused a continuous buildup of contempt and disrespect toward your authority. Including from me.

I know you mean well; you're good with nurturing noobs and maintaining a website. However - and I'm sorry but it's just the truth, you don't know how to handle people. It's inherent in some people's personality; you don't command any natural authority in large groups of people. You want everyone to just be nice and chill out together, but that's the attitude of a kindergarten nanny, not a community leader, and it just doesn't work. You need to finally understand this. It will never work anywhere, unless you're lucky the community members happen to be friends - but you're certainly not leading anybody.

Also, I owe people the truth about what happened in January 2020.

The wild side of the community was really funny to me honestly, and I enjoyed the charm of certain people in it. But while I was trying to fit in, I found it hard to watch all the shit keep unfolding between the different sides.  In some cases it was outright obsessive, painting some people as devils. While I like offensive humor - and I'm not here to preach a safe space culture - it really did go overboard in some cases, high-school-bullying like. I thought that was a bit crazy, but then I also was crazy myself and unloaded excessive criticism at a few users, so I can't talk much I guess. I didn't really know what I was doing there. I was friends with both the trolls and the people they targeted, as well as with certain people who were arch-nemesis to each other. Zombie-style, I naively hoped people somehow "get along". I yearned to see the server as one whole, like some hippie singing Kumbaya or something.

So I didn't know what the hell to do, because nobody was really doing anything about the situation. Dunkelschwann had a bit more sense to him but he wasn't given any functional authority, he didn't have the time, and all he managed to do was post large walls of text that looked like they belong to a blog post. One tries to approach the server as one large community - but there was just this big, dark, widening divide between its sub-cultures and an increasingly toxic atmosphere across it. When the hostilities mounted and I felt betrayed by a certain somebody, I finally lost my marbles. I couldn't stand being in the crossroads anymore and wanted to end the whole situation.

Edit: Apology redacted. To this day certain people continue with their toxic attitudes and rather burn bridges instead of building them; doing the same shit that escalated the fires in the first place. Despite apologizing for my part, no one else has done the same, and I'm not interested in being their scapegoat.

In regards to inviting people from all communities and expecting them to get along; you're probably right. But I can expect them to be civil. There are tonnes of public gatherings on the Internet and in real life that will bring a whole slew of people in, yet many of these don't devolve the way communications did here.
I don't expect a Utopia where everyone is the best of friends, you just had to coexist, much like any place in life. There are ECWolf people in the server talking about ECWolf and someone doesn't like it? They don't have to respond. There are other conversations you can have. Most of us are adults and this is a general point of being in a community.

As to the ban of Serpens, that was because people from the group of friends were at the time all rejoining the Discord to cause drama, as mentioned in the DHW posts. It was a pre-emptive ban, and it turned out to ultimately be unnecessary, but it was a necessary precaution to slow down what was going on and sort things out.
There was nothing personal involved in that ban; to re-use that library metaphor from where this discussion was originally taking place, if a group of people who were causing problems leave as a group, then come back one by one into the library causing trouble, you might want to be cautious about letting further members of that group in for fear of further disruption.
During said time, there was discussion about the situation, the results and he was unbanned pretty much straight away. In fact, unbanned before people who complained about his being banned had a chance (Aurora).

The banning for "being associated with Atina" is loosely true; it was about the antics that the group Atina was a part of were doing at that time in 2020. However it was extremely temporary, done without any malice and resolved quickly.

Aurora wrote:I can only see it as basically a panic action at a point where the admin realized he had totally lost control of the situation and had no idea what to do.

It could be surmised as that; the people coming into the server just to stir up issues had to be stopped and control regained, and Serpens being a part of that group [who all left together], who returned in amongst that time got caught in it as a precautionary measure. If I had left him and he decided to start spamming up the server or causing issues, that would have been an issue.

I banned Chris, but not for life. He was banned because I made things very clear to him after his eventual ramp up to attacking AstroCreep and he still proceeded to go against server moderation, and continues to.
I've approached him about unbanning him, after the debacle that happened in June, but he is always unreasonable in terms of this. Before this, I was usually getting demands about being unbanned while also insulting myself and others.

 

Yet, if anyone wants to come back they should apologize to you nicely

By "apolgize to [me] nicely", I just want an acknowledgement that they understand they broke the rules (An apology does this), and that they won't break the rules again.

Aurora has admitted being behind a lot of the drama several times and yet you keep ignoring it and defend her

I've never been given anything beyond this allegation, and it is just an allegation. But assuming it's not, these people still did the things that were at issue. If Aurora was indeed the cause then why couldn't people just say "Hey, I'm sorry that happened. Won't happen again." Instead I get "See it's Aurora's fault, unban me".

Once again, regardless of the reasons, people still broke the rules (consistently with many warnings and attempts at resolution, over the course of the year), and feel justified in doing so, apparently.

Pretty tired of Atina being constantly thrown under the bus. Seemingly it's not ok to troll/bully/criticize/insert-any-other-word-that-suits-you some but it's ok for others to do that to her no matter what? Outside of her shell, she is a pretty sweet and friendly girl more often than not.

And I can absolutely believe that; when the server first started and before that, I did enjoy talking to her outside of the JPB incidents. We looked to have a fair few interests in common and they are a very talented person.
However, if you're talking about the AstroCreep/Atina stuff that happened specifically, I remember distinctly. The accusation was that AstroCreep was stirring all of the issues. So I told them not to respond to anything they considered initiating and to just contact me if there was an issue.
Coincidently, the only one between them who continued to stir these banters was Atina, while Astro kept lamenting the fact he wasn't allowed to respond.

When any moderation to break up these things was intiated, Atina would go on a rant about my apparent bias towards ECWolf and Astro, despite trying to take the most objective approach to these things.
Instead, all that could have happened was an an acknowledgement and a stopping of the negative discourse. Bam, done and noone needs to be moderated further.

I don't want to talk about these things, but they keep getting brought up by others, typically members of the offending group.

As for your ban. Majority voted for it and it was decided over several days. So it's not like someone just banned you out of the blue. I guess you can always write an apology if you feel like coming back.

So it was a vote based on whether a group of people like me, rather than anything I was specifically doing? If you guys choose to ban me like that, that's your choice, but I'm unaware of what exactly I should apologize for. Or why I should return to a server where the main people in it only harass me or interoggate me.

You can moderate the place as you like, it's yours after all. Same goes for other places.

I admit that my administration structure at the time was flawed; but I've been taking steps to establish a better system, with checks and balances to keep everything in check and a more established standard. All I can ever do is attempt to move forward and learn from these experiences.

I get that there is animosity from your side of the argument, but my stance has and always be the same; people broke rules, and if they want to be on the server they need to not break the rules. There is nothing personal there, minus all the attacks on myself that generally happened after the fact.

If this really was a case of people being influenced, then I'm sure we can eventually resolve these things and move on. Even if people don't want to admit that what they did was wrong, I'd love to at least see it stop being used as a tool for starting arguments.

Anyway, yes. I can say I don't love spending my day arguing about this stuff for the umpteenth time over 2 years instead of doing Wolfenstein stuff.

.

.

.

Ho boy, here goes.

You know, I've been watching this unfold from the shadows much like the shit that went down last year.
But seeing how things are developing, I might as well give my two cents on the matter.

And for the record, I'm not here to have some stupid civil discussion with you since those go nowhere, I'm here to throw down!

Zombie_Plan wrote:In regards to inviting people from all communities and expecting them to get along; you're probably right. But I can expect them to be civil. There are tonnes of public gatherings on the Internet and in real life that will bring a whole

There's this thing called being naive and that's what your mindset is.
Different strokes, different folks. People are bound to get into arguments and while it has to stop at one point, you don't even let them show an opinion. While being outright an asshole is no good yes, things can get resolved when they get heated and you don't even let that happen.
Even if it's humorous banter, you still jump in and tell them "plz stop move it to pmz plox uwu".

Zombie_Plan wrote:I've never been given anything beyond this allegation, and it is just an allegation. But assuming it's not, these people still did the things that were at issue. If Aurora was indeed the cause then why couldn't people just say "Hey, I'm sorry that happened. Won't happen again." Instead I get "See it's Aurora's fault, unban me".

Zombie_Plan wrote:I don't want to talk about these things, but they keep getting brought up by others, typically members of the offending group.

See, here's the thing. The drama happened, but everyone except for the perpetrator seemingly got away. It's not about unbanning the rest and banning Aurora. If they got the hammer, then she has to as well.
She has written countless times about it and all you see is "this allegation". It's not an allegation, it's a fact. The buttstabber can confirm as much.
And so she did in this thread, BUTT your common sense-o-vision seems to be working about as well as a copy of Postal III.
They shouldn't be the ones saying "I'm sowwy zombie- sama uwu".
You saw a house fire happen and instead of, y'know, saying it was the fault of the one who started it, you're blaming the fire for burning.
And it's not just "members of the offending group" who bring it up.

You seemingly act like you have a neutral bias, but we both know this is BS.
Want an example? Me.
Imma be honest, I'm no good Samaritan. I poked and prodded DJ about Blade of Agony and (putting it lightly) not-so-well made remake of Eisenfaust.
And when me and a certain other user started posting skeleton gifs, you started deleting it, considering it spam and "disruptive behaviour".
While the spam part is true, nobody had a problem with it (except you) and there was no disruption of any conversation, even at the time of my ban.
I'm not here to defend myself, mind you.
I'd rather play football with the head of a morningstar than join that mess of a place again.

Oh, look at that! AN EXTRA EXAMPLE:
I asked my friend Nikka to go fetch some stuff from your discord and while she was there, not only did you go "hurr this Aurora lmao" because Aurora was banned at the time and you thought this was an alt, but then you also made a big deal out of it when I asked Nikka to send you my personal thank you for the ban (that being a screenshot of what I told her to relay to you + an image of goatse). She just did what I told her and that's it. The PM later was again just to fuck with you. (And it was my choice btw, Atina didn't command me to do so).

Fun fact: some time ago, there was a meme about discord admins. Among other things, the meme was about how typical admins would enforce the rules no matter what (like no memes in general or else ban).
You remind me very much so of that meme.
Wanna here a funnier fact? I too moderate a server. Some tiem ago, some of the users started posting a specific emoji in general. And you know what happened? I let them do it, because every time a conversation about something started, people would stop posting it and join OR go do something else. And nobody complained about the emoji spam either way.
Enforcing the rules would've just made me look like an asshole.

Oh and to re- state what I said before my ban, I regret nothing. Being banned from your E-for-everyone-playground of a server did not impact my life in any negative way, so don't expect me to crawl at your feed and give you a succ to let me back in.

Zombie_Plan wrote:

As for your ban. Majority voted for it and it was decided over several days. So it's not like someone just banned you out of the blue. I guess you can always write an apology if you feel like coming back.

So it was a vote based on whether a group of people like me, rather than anything I was specifically doing? If you guys choose to ban me like that, that's your choice, but I'm unaware of what exactly I should apologize for. Or why I should return to a server where the main people in it only harass me or interoggate me.

Yeah, you were specifically doing something. Or did. But your ability to see it is about as good as the one of a mole.
Refer to what I said above.

Zombie_Plan wrote:I admit that my administration structure at the time was flawed; but I've been taking steps to establish a better system, with checks and balances to keep everything in check and a more established standard. All I can ever do is attempt to move forward and learn from these experiences.

Have you wondered whether it still was, seeing how we're still talking about all this?
You didn't just take steps, you took leaps. Leaps in the wrong direction.
I saw what you've done and you just keep making that server more and more of a safe space.
Hell, why don't you just put on a swear filter bot and ban everyone for saying anything even remotely offensive?
You have not moved forward, you're stuck.
You're the same as you were at the start.
History's bound to repeat itself if you keep going like that. No matter how many logger bots, mods, bans or anything you do.  The more you enforce your authority on a server, the bigger mess you are making.

Zombie_Plan wrote:Anyway, yes. I can say I don't love spending my day arguing about this stuff for the umpteenth time over 2 years instead of doing Wolfenstein stuff.

And yet, here you are.
Still responding, still replying, still regurgitating the same sentences over and over again, in a downward spiral of insanity.
Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why this was happening? Have you ever stopped to ask yourself maybe, just maybe, there was a good reason that had to do with you?
Probably not, considering the way you've been replying to everyone, dodging questions, changing subjects, so on and so forth.

At this point, I firmly believe you're afraid of being cancelled.
You jump in at the slightest bit of banter and then set up protection against this or that.
You're afraid of someone cancelling you online and in turn have become a big coward.

When you're done reading this, I dare you to reply in the most casual way possible. No long walls of text, just replies like "No, you're wrong here's why..." or "Yes, you're right.".
I dare you, I double dare you!
And if you don't, I'll disregard what you said and keep believing what I believe, see how that feels when you're the one getting the same treatment you've given put to people.
But that shouldn't bother you, right?

Also

Aurora wrote:... I also separately violated the privacy of two of my (no longer) friends, Nep and Wolf3DGuy.

Bitch, if you'll be writing shit, you better make sure the person you're talking about is not reading the thread.

.

.

@Aurora
Apologising only to people who wants to accept it (and taking it back when they don't) proves only that you have never been sincere about it

Sorry. Somebody who openly admits to being an asshole and thinks 90% of people deserve it doesn't sound like he's desperate for an apology.

As for you, you were an eternal contrarian picking fights with people, and mocking them behind their backs. You sparked drama filled conversations without me even being around. People on WolfSource remember you for that. Once you encouraged me to troll on another server, and later I found out you wanted to make a mutual acquaintance unfriend me.

I don't hate you, but I'm wondering now why you think you deserve an apology. Especially, what did I do to you that you weren't guilty of yourself?

At least none of us here are as terrible as Astrocreep

Actually Chris, you did - sometimes still do - the same thing I did. Which is bring people who dislike each other in the same place at the right time. I just managed to do it once on a large scale. Just because I did and admitted it though, doesn't mean you're all absolved of guilt. There's a reason the community is split across two servers, and will probably stay that way.

The convention of Eternal Bullshitters is in session