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    Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

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    WolfForever
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    Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:09 am

    First topic message reminder :

    Well having played the originals so many times, I was thinking of the way I could play them once again to challenge myself the absolute most (yet not have it be impossible or virtually impossible), and this is the idea I came up with.

    Have you beat every original Wolfenstein 3D/SoD level:

    1. On I am Death Incarnate;
    2. Starting the level from scratch (pistol and 8 bullets);
    3. Without ever saving or restoring a game;
    4. Using no secrets (for extra items) besides ones that are absolutely mandatory; and
    5. In under that par time?

    That is precisely the challenge I am trying in accomplish, and so far I've done it for all of Episode 4 as well as E6L1-E6L4. While Episode 6 is without a doubt the hardest episode overall, the hardest level I've come across to do this with, IMO, has been E4L8. That level is quite long for a par of just 4:30 to begin with, and it is VERY packed with resistance. In fact, I often had to use my score as a way to tell me whether or not I had left any stragglers behind that would sneak up and kill me later on. After too many tries to count, I beat it with SEVEN SECOUNDS to spare.

    Part of the difficulty in that level is that you have to go a decent way it with just a pistol. While, on Episode 6, you'll see a machinegun and/or SS on each level relatively quickly, so you don't have to spend too long with just the pistol.

    Now I know E4L8 contains a shortcut that lets me skip a good third to half of the level, but it is a pushwall that is not mandatory, so for me it was off-limits. Not that I'd say it would be easy even if I had used it, because there is only really one area (the red brick one) that I can skip entirely using the shortcut.

    I also had to pull a strategy at the start of E4L5: knife my way through the dogs until I could reach the door, and then IMMEDIATELY close the door behind me leaving extra dogs behind. (Remember that I could not use the shotgun/ammo secret at the start, since that is not a mandatory secret.) I also had to use the non-mandatory (but non-secret) swastika-shaped room in the maze with the SS (for a machinegun), dinners, and ammo, before taking on the silver key resistance. And on E4L7 I had to go north at the start and get the chaingun BEFORE using the trick to jam the gold door with enemies. With just a pistol and fewer bullets, taking down that whole hoard and making sure I kill an enemy in the door is quite a challenge, I found. Yet in those two cases, I still managed to finish over a minute under par once I used the right strategy at the start (yes, I did E4L7 in around a minute even taking the detour to the chaingun at the start).

    The other levels so far - some were easier and others tougher, but those levels in E4 represent the toughest one (E4L8) and the two most strategic starts (E4L5 and E4L7) I've come across.


    Last edited by WolfForever on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:09 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:26 pm

    Well there are videos up on Youtube with the original Wolf3d music in IMF format. Some have decent quality while others don't. I guess recording them manually is the only way.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:35 pm

    Well, we're going to have to define "quality" here. I like Wolf3d and all, but for me to listen to its music like other tracks I have, I'm going to require more, and nothing a IMF can pull out.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:37 pm

    Well as far as quality goes, some sound crisp and clear while others sound loud and muffled.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Thomas on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:44 pm

    Totenschlauss is great. I dig Tautengrber a little more though, and Project Weilandergung is equally good.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I just thought I'd stepped into the world of word cockup-accepting.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:52 am

    Oh, I'm sorry, I just thought I'd stepped into the world of word cockup-accepting.

    Well you do like to flip off the Wolf Community. It is your hobbie after all Cool

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Thomas on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:17 am

    Yes, indeed it is my hobbie with ie instead of y. What's this forum base language anyway, French?!

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:18 am

    @Thomas wrote:Yes, indeed it is my hobbie with ie instead of y. What's this forum base language anyway, French?!
    Yes.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Andy on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:18 am

    Poly vous a humma humma?

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:19 am

    @Andy wrote:Poly vous a humma humma?
    Google translate didn't recognize the language... clown



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:27 pm

    Doesn't translate gibberish.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:11 pm

    All fingers crossed and this will be LIVE in a couple hours:

    http://youtu.be/D5ChekH0Osk

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:15 pm

    Heh. Good luck with that.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:16 pm

    Good luck with what?

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:25 pm

    With trying to keep your gameplay LIVE.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:47 pm

    All I mean by live is that the video will be up and hopefully there will be some interest to watch and enjoy it. Smile

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:50 pm

    Oh... my bad.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:54 pm

    I hope some people on here will be interested once it's uploaded. Smile

    Any ideas as to what I can do to draw attention at least on this forum and/or DHW?

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Valts on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:58 pm

    Honestly, I have played On I am Death Incarnate only a few times and I used secrets. Yes, I saved and restoring and time was not under par time. My answer is : no.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:05 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:I hope some people on here will be interested once it's uploaded. Smile

    Any ideas as to what I can do to draw attention at least on this forum and/or DHW?
    Pay a few credits, have a banner message on this forum. Then give out cake.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:11 pm

    That's one way to put it, Wizzie.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:13 pm

    Okay there was a small mistake, I forgot to enable longer than 15 minute uploads so my initial upload was instantly deleted. Sad

    But I found a way to shrink the filesize some and honed my skills in even more, so the new upload is on its way and hopefully should be ready within about an hour! Smile

    Here's the eventual link: http://youtu.be/GFiqrL0fDQA

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:12 pm

    The video is up! Follow the link above and enjoy! Smile

    Commentary is highly welcome! Smile

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Thomas on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:48 am

    Where the hell is that cake?!

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:28 pm

    There is a new video up - Episode 3:

    http://youtu.be/JzWbHiyMuT8

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:40 pm

    I'm waiting for episode 6, my good sir. Smile I have not done (or attempted) finishing last level under your rules of no saves/secrets for E6L9 yet. With saves, yes.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:03 pm

    No on E6L9 it will be no saves with the first secret area. If all supplies in a boss level are in a secret area, at least one secret with ammo and one with health (can be the same secret for both, i.e. E1L9) are considered mandatory.

    I'd think Episode 6 would have to be last (for the original Wolfenstein) because it's the longest, toughest levels, unless those mutants in Episode 2 are what ultimately kill me most on speedruns no matter what I do.

    Next episode is a surprise though, til it's announced. Smile Oh, and announced means I have finished recording the video. Honestly I pretty much decided E3 out of the blue, mainly because it has a lot of relatively small levels. E1 has big layouts but also lots of big rooms/areas and the biggest challenge is just knowing the path to the key and then the locked door, E2 has the mutants and I don't care about anything else, E3 and E5 are fairly compact especially the first halves, and E4 and E6 have pretty extensive layouts but ultimately E6 takes much longer (and is much harder).

    p.s. Looking in a map of E3L7 - does anyone know why there are formations of the letters J, R, O, T, and H on that level?

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Thomas on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:49 pm

    J R O is likely John Romero and T H are most likely Tom Hall. Wild guess. Had no idea about these till you mentioned it. Boo-ya! God, I'm so clever! *kisses muscles I pretend to have*

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by linuxwolf on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:32 pm

    I'd like to see what happens when you play according to the following rules:

    1. Kill as few enemies as possible (zero kills is ideal but not always possible).
    2. Play on the hardest skill level.
    3. Finish map as fast as you can.

    The first rule is the most important.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:47 pm

    Maybe that'll be my next challenge...but emphasis on 1 is going to be super tough. Any room with several enemies in it will be like a death sentence to try and run through. Especially if they include Officers or SS (or mutants).

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:41 pm

    New video - Episode 2 (yes I decided to take on 'em mutants!), I am just going to put all three links here for convenience Smile

    Episode 2 (new): http://youtu.be/OkgC0THteNo
    Episode 3: http://youtu.be/JzWbHiyMuT8
    Episode 4: http://youtu.be/GFiqrL0fDQA

    Enjoy! Smile

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Ipank7000 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:47 pm

    If anyone want to see i did episode 5.
    And it tried episode 2 too and wow, i failed over and over again especially in level 4.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:25 pm

    Well I don't want to watch it before I beat Episode 5 myself, as I'd not feel right if I watched someone else do it before I did it myself (or at least tried).

    However, please don't take that as an insult at all - I am absolutely interested and will watch it as soon as I am done...I see it's under 15:00 so great job I know already! Smile (EDIT: Missed the part 2, but it is still pretty short. Smile BTW there is an option on YouTube to enable video length >15 minutes. It's free and all, I just had to have a voice call to my phone with a verification code. That was it.)

    Also Episode 5 may be my next episode, after I annotate Episode 4...just not much in the mood for Episode 1, it's obviously a classic being shareware but it is my least favorite episode. This is just another reason to do E5 myself next! Smile

    Hopefully no one will object if I just skip Episode 1 for now. Or I can record a video (it doesn't take that long) but not annotate it. I just can't think of that much to comment on, other than that it was shareware and how Wolf3D ultimately made its debut. It's a classic, no doubt about that, but I just think all the other episodes make better videos.

    And I'd like to do Spear of Destiny afterwards...now THAT is going to be one BIG video, plus I'll have to keep my concentration going for TWICE as long!

    Regarding Episode 2, I hope you just enjoy my video then. Smile Maybe it'll even help you do it yourself...

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Ipank7000 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:48 pm

    Thank you for information about > 15 minutes video.

    There is a mistake that i go to secret door in level 9 which we can directly go to room with full ammo and we don't need to go secret door and kill the boss with machinegun.

    Good luck for try spear of destiny, it will be great video Smile.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:43 pm

    Just finished doing comments on my Episode 4 video! Smile All three episodes so far have them now.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:36 pm

    I decided to do Episode 1 for completion sake if nothing else. It doesn't have much commentary but it will be here when it's ready:

    http://youtu.be/spgOVLxnOLs

    Episode 5 will be next, then Episode 6! I'll probably get them both up then add comments, unless popular demand says otherwise.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:10 am

    Still waiting to comment on E6L9 when you get to it.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:47 am

    Maybe if enough people harang WolfForever, he'll actually do it. I might try doing that level without secrets OR saving in between the level. That really adds the stress level, because the longer you survive, the closer you are to beating the starting point, the more you have to lose on a messup. Moreso for WolfForever.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:49 am

    Hey I wanna see with my own eyes on how he did E6L9. Talking about it ain't cutting it this time.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:50 am

    He never said he did it, in fact he said he's not going to do it. I said I'll do it, but I'm not going to start from level 1 and work all the way up to 9.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:52 am

    LOL you lie!

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:53 am

    I did do it... from level 9 with saving. Now without saving will make it that much more difficult.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:58 am

    And Forever doesn't have the balls to try?

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:59 am

    Well, if you have to play levels 1-9 each time and replay all of it each time you lose all of your lives, that will suck. But it's a good challenge if he has the time and is up for it. (ANd he still cant use any saves...)



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:02 am

    If I would do it, I play levels 1-8 like I always do, and then not save on Level 9.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:05 am

    @WolferCooker wrote:If I would do it, I play levels 1-8 like I always do, and then not save on Level 9.
    That kills the entire point of playing 1-8. I'll attempt 9 without saving tommorrow. Actually, because it's 1am, later today.



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Thomas on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:07 am

    You !#% rookies, I dun E6M9 wit ma toooes two times in a row and I had a headache that day! Boo, WolfForever!

    And I did it with only a knife and a missile launcher Havoc coded in for me.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:09 am

    Ha! 3 hour time difference between us bro.

    Anyway, someone on Youtube successfully killed Hans Grosse with nothing but a pistol

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 am

    HUH?! Thomas I want that version of Wolf3d now.

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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 am

    @WolferCooker wrote:

    Anyway, someone on Youtube successfully killed Hans Grosse with nothing but a pistol
    So what? That's so easy to do. I can knife Hans to death. That's not even that impressive, it's just very annoying to do.
    Play SHS with a pistol and eight rounds each level. I've done it. Now that's harder to do. You want a challenge, the challenge is staring at your face. (Or frustration, whichever you prefer to call it.)



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    Re: Original game challenges (Now loosened somewhat with four to choose from!)

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:14 am

    I'd ragequit. If I couldn't beat Totenschlauss with all the weapons at my disposal for 4 days, then there's no way i'd be in decent shape to play SHS with a pistol and 8 rounds.


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