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    Wolf3d Map Editors

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    Imed
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    Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:30 am

    Wolf3d Map Editors
    Hello people! I am Imed; member of Demedgruppestudios ( http://demedgruppe.comuf.com/ ). I dont speak english so excuse me if i am not too clear.
    Well, we are working on a mod for wolf3d (Wolf4sdl) from over a year ago, and recently we reach a point where the map editors are too limited for our proyect. Our biggest problem is the texture limit inside of the map editors (we are using Chaos edit), we have more than 64 textures in our mod -all working properly - but is too dificult to use in the map editor because is limited to 64 textures/IDs only. We try everything already but nothings seems to work, for example:



    In 3d mode, what you see in the editor -if you are using a texture which ID is bigger than original 64- is not what you see ingame.

    That is just one of the problems we are facing, but the only one "Hard" for us.



    Other editors are more limited or the are in alpha state and too buggy.
    So, what i am asking for?
    Is there any map editor open source? even map edit? something that allow us to use more textures.
    We really dont need something fancy like "3d view" (is usefull YES, but we can live without it).
    I cant find any open source editor so, if that doesnt exist, anyone has a clue of how to create one?
    We look at that posibility but there is a lack of information about the wolf3d map format, and reverse engineering to gamemaps file...well, i believe is not legal.



    Ok, thats all by now.
    We really hope someone can help us, our mod will bring something fresh and new to the wolf3d modding world and we planned the release date before Christmas santa, if this problem can be solved.



    Well thanks in advance for taking time to read this and/or help us.

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Richter Belmont on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:44 am

    That's always been a problem with chaosedit for me honestly. I don't know about the 64+ walls thing but you should give HWE a try

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Guest on Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:38 pm

    Hi Tyrone!


    Last edited by Chokster37 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:01 pm; edited 65 times in total

    doomjedi
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:38 pm

    I love ChaosEdit.
    And you can avoid the walls limitation by using wallpatches.

    Imed
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:53 pm

    Thanks for the answers guys.

    Richter Bermont, i try HWE just before posting on this site Wink
    That editor has a lot of potential, but the current version (0.3.3) is too buggy; the biggest problem arrives when you save your map and the file is corrupt (due a saving error or something like that related to the editor) or suddenly it close. I hope the author make a more stable version soon.

    Chokster37...what are you saying to me?confused? Is a joke? an insult? Wink


    Doomjedi...
    Wallpatches; It has some kind of limitation in the number of wallpatches you can use in a map?
    Thanks for that and for Operation Einsenfaust, i really enjoy it.

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by doomjedi on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:00 am

    @Imed wrote:It has some kind of limitation in the number of wallpatches you can use in a map?
    Not that I know about. Wolf4SDL has no actor limitation in maps.
    Wallpatch is coded as an object you put over a wall....so it's as limited as the objects limitation of the Editor you use (512 in ChaosEdit, no limit in other editors). Each wallpatch replaces at least a few wall variants and can be used onto any wall - so since we moved to using WallPatches in our mods - we don't suffer from walls limitation.

    Thanks for that and for Operation Einsenfaust, i really enjoy it.
    You're welcome Smile
    Try our other mods too Smile

    http://www.moddb.com/company/team-raycast

    And also wait for our nexts mods Smile Hope to keep the standards as high in next future mods or even...who knows Wink

    Imed
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:53 am

    @doomjedi wrote:
    @Imed wrote:It has some kind of limitation in the number of wallpatches you can use in a map?
    Not that I know about. Wolf4SDL has no actor limitation in maps.
    Wallpatch is coded as an object you put over a wall....so it's as limited as the objects limitation of the Editor you use (512 in ChaosEdit, no limit in other editors). Each wallpatch replaces at least a few wall variants and can be used onto any wall - so since we moved to using WallPatches in our mods - we don't suffer from walls limitation.

    Thanks for that and for Operation Einsenfaust, i really enjoy it.
    You're welcome Smile
    Try our other mods too Smile

    http://www.moddb.com/company/team-raycast

    And also wait for our nexts mods :)Hope to keep the standards as high in next future mods or even...who knows Wink
    oh, i understand. Thanks.

    pd: i already played your others mods. BatmanvsBane was fun but i was a little anooying because was too dark to me Wink, an sometimes you dont see from where are shooting at you...in my opinion is a good thing to have in a mod, but not to abuse of it.

    Split Wolf, oh..i remember playing that on my old Pentium III with my brothers. Will you include the option of play with split screen in future mods?.

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by doomjedi on Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:48 am

    @Imed wrote:Split Wolf, oh..i remember playing that on my old Pentium III with my brothers.
    Did you try Beta 2? It's much better than beta 1.

    Will you include the option of play with split screen in future mods?.
    No.
    Originally LinuxWolf allowed such mode for BvsB, it was actually the first test of SplitScreen in action, but we scrapped it....as making 8-dir frames (including shooting and pain) for all enemies and Bosses of each particular mod is too much work (I did it for some BvsB enemies at the time...but later gave up). Just imagine it. If you don't - you probably undervalue "SplitWolf"'s art achivement for making all those frames for enemies and Bosses....it's was a HARD work, frame by frame, and I doubt authors of other TCs will go through all the pain of making such per each enemy - and without such SplitScreen will look most lame. "SplitWolf" works so well because I went through the pain of making all those frames for classic Wolf3D. Each enemy for "SplitWolf" requires much more frames than usual enemy.

    ...numerious other projects already asked my permission to use those frames in other mods, including zDoom mods.

    SplitWolf supports any classic Wolf3D / Spear mappack.
    "SoD Extreme" we recently released supports SplitWolf, being a classic Spear mod.

    Good news is that we are considering Beta 3 - after some new feedbacks came to us. Beta 3 (if ever released) will have some cool new gameplay options we recently discussed with LinuxWolf..

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Atina on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:06 am

    @doomjedi wrote:(...)
    If you were such a nice artist you wouldn't have to mention it in every second post tongue

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Thomas on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:43 am

    Oooooh snap!

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by giftmacher on Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:15 pm

    @Atina wrote:
    @doomjedi wrote:(...)
    If you were such a nice artist you wouldn't have to mention it in every second post tongue
    Game, set and match bom

    Imed
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:35 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:
    @Imed wrote:Split Wolf, oh..i remember playing that on my old Pentium III with my brothers.
    Did you try Beta 2? It's much better than beta 1.

    Will you include the option of play with split screen in future mods?.
    No.
    Originally LinuxWolf allowed such mode for BvsB, it was actually the first test of SplitScreen in action, but we scrapped it....as making 8-dir frames (including shooting and pain) for all enemies and Bosses of each particular mod is too much work (I did it for some BvsB enemies at the time...but later gave up). Just imagine it. If you don't - you probably undervalue "SplitWolf"'s art achivement for making all those frames for enemies and Bosses....it's was a HARD work, frame by frame, and I doubt authors of other TCs will go through all the pain of making such per each enemy - and without such SplitScreen will look most lame. "SplitWolf" works so well because I went through the pain of making all those frames for classic Wolf3D. Each enemy for "SplitWolf" requires much more frames than usual enemy.

    ...numerious other projects already asked my permission to use those frames in other mods, including zDoom mods.

    SplitWolf supports any classic Wolf3D / Spear mappack.
    "SoD Extreme" we recently released supports SplitWolf, being a classic Spear mod.

    Good news is that we are considering Beta 3 - after some new feedbacks came to us. Beta 3 (if ever released) will have some cool new gameplay options we recently discussed with LinuxWolf..
    Beta 2?confused?
    Downloading Right Now! Birthday Boy


    Yeah! Making 8 dir sprites really hard...even make only 1 sprite/frame (if you wanna do it well) has certains dificulties related to the time.

    In our mod, we had a lot of details and we didnt use any texture, sprite or sound from the original wolf3d.

    We spend time thinking in differents aproachs / methods for saving time when working with sprites or textures.

    As a result, we are doing the things very quickly thanks to many tutorials and resources from the web and to Mmed for doing an awesome job in coding and art work too.

    In my opinion wolf3d right now has certaing basic limitations that need a solution to make the engine more versatile and save us hundreds of hours.

    For example:
    Wolf3d should load the textures and sprites externally and without limits. The assignation of ids should be automatic.
    Maybe i am dreaming too much...Sleep

    But with something like that (supported by the editors too,obviously) mods could be not only more detailed, i am not aiming to that only, mods could be created more quickly, because is more easy that way..at least for us due the use of external graphics editors instead of chaos edit or whatever.



    Ok, I hope my English is understandable.

    Seeya! king

    Mega Luigi
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Mega Luigi on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:14 am

    I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question, but ChaosEdit is not limited to 64 wall textures, although you cannot add many more. If you have gone beyond the limits of a normal wolf mod (i.e. by adding MANY new textures and MANY new objects) then you might want to use WDC. As far as I know, WDC (and maybe HWE, but you already tried that) is the only to support case numbers to 65535, what means virtually infinite new walls/objects/whatever you wish.

    Imed
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    Thanks!!!!!!!!!

    Post by Imed on Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:58 pm

    @Mega Luigi wrote:I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question, but ChaosEdit is not limited to 64 wall textures, although you cannot add many more. If you have gone beyond the limits of a normal wolf mod (i.e. by adding MANY new textures and MANY new objects) then you might want to use WDC. As far as I know, WDC (and maybe HWE, but you already tried that) is the only to support case numbers to 65535, what means virtually infinite new walls/objects/whatever you wish.

    At the moment we have more than 64 wall textures running on Chaosedit...The editor doenst recognize them well, so the "new ones" are replaced by the old ones in the 3d view, but in game looks correct, and that is the basis of the problem, we are "limited" now at 2d view editing mostly but the icons are all the same for new walls/floors/ceilings, i think i can be changed but is a hard task if you are using many textures.


    That is all we has progress until now.

    Thanks, we are working hard on it.

    Mega Luigi
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Mega Luigi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:21 am

    Ah, now I see what you mean. Seems like there is a hardcoded limit for wall definitions on ChaosEdit. Sorry if I couldn't be too helpful on that matter.

    Imed
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:53 pm

    @Mega Luigi wrote:Ah, now I see what you mean. Seems like there is a hardcoded limit for wall definitions on ChaosEdit. Sorry if I couldn't be too helpful on that matter.
    No problem, thanks for answer.

    WDC is our best choice right now, we are working on to understand how the id system works so we can use more than 64 textures to it.

    If that doesnt work...well, we are in trouble and facing 4 possibilities:

    1) Use Chaos Edit with very VERY EXTREME care.
    2) Wait for an update for editors.
    3) Start Modding Doom...Sad
    4) Learn magic.


    Ok, if we success you will see it in this forum
    Thanx and seeya!

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:54 pm

    What about HWE?



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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by JDMGD0 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:09 am

    He already said that he finds HWE too buggy... Razz



    Let's think of a siggy... Well, I'd rather nap... :O

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:47 am

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:What about HWE?
    @JDMGD0 wrote:He already said that he finds HWE too buggy...
    Yes, is very unstable, sometimes the editor just shuts down without any warning or error message and you lost your work or it saves and damage all your maps. Is in Alpha stage and was one of our first choices due the possibility of create 256x256 maps because we have a drivables vehicles on our mod , but due the bugs we re-design our maps/ideas to work on 64x64...and as you may guess..is not so awesome. Sad

    I tried to contact with the mod author "Havoc" using the link in the webpage http://hwolf3d.dugtrio17.com/index.php?section=news

    without success, i think the link may be broken.



    Thanks.

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Andy on Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:06 am

    You can PM user Havoc on this forum, maybe you'll have more success.Smile

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:25 pm

    @JDMGD0 wrote:He already said that he finds HWE too buggy... Razz
    Oh my bad.
    Yeah, I've only used HWE for a little bit, and for original SDL wolf (with larger than normal levels). Didn't have problems there though. I thought Havoc was still maintaining the thing.



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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by D3m3 on Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:57 am

    How to save this in ChaosEdit?

    Imed
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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Imed on Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:38 pm

    @D3m3 wrote:How to save this in ChaosEdit?

    Hi.!
    Well, if you make any modification to the map, you will see the "diskettes" icon (on the left panel) activated, allowing you to save the map.

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Andy on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:41 am

    And if you hover your mouse over each button, it usually shows what it does.

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by D3m3 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:47 am

    I click Save All,but still had the floor and ceiling without textures
    Or if I edit the map,be sure to press all alone?

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    Re: Wolf3d Map Editors

    Post by Andy on Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:12 am

    Are you sure your EXE isn't the problem?

    There may be valid ceilings and floors in the map's third plane, but if the EXE is not set to read them, it won't.

    There's a line in VERSION.H that needs to be uncommented:

    //#define USE_FLOORCEILINGTEX // Enables floor and ceiling textures stored in the third mapplane (see wl_floorceiling.cpp)

    Also, if it's not already in your project, wl_floorceiling.cpp may have to added.

    Make sure to rebuild all after doing either/both of these things in your code.

    Alternative: make sure your map files are not read-only.

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