BMSE 10-year edition, by various authors

How do you think this turned out? I think it's quite very solid (through Level 9), at least a 'very good' score, but nonetheless I'm interested in what all others think.

I guess it depends on what criteria one is to use to rate this set. It's hard to compare it to the original as the original was a mix of over the top, or low quality, or extremely well-designed levels (a real hodge-podge). I think the anniversary set has more consistency with the quality, but there isn't much that is brain-altering in the enjoyment department. BMSEAE is worth playing and I think I got exactly what I expected (I was expecting average or better), but how many of these levels will I remember in a year's time? Even now I only distinctly remember four levels from the original. From BMSEAE I know I will remember Serpen's, Dean's, Thomas', Simon's, Lakota's, Poet's, and Ron's. The others are already fading into memory (keeping in mind that my memory ain't what it used to be). I was hoping people would experiment more with the added features. I know I tired (and THANK YOU to Andy for getting my level to work and to Ariel for testing it on IADI when I couldn't), but I found a lot of the levels were very straight forward in their design. Not necessarily a bad thing, but when a lot of people take the same approach to level design the community starts to stagnate. This as in everything that comes from my pie hole is merely just my opinion. I'm voting Very Good as I see the work that went into this set and overall it is a pretty good play especially when comparing it to the average faire produced today, but I will admit I was wanting a bit more.

This poll doesn't [edit: necessarily - you can feel free if you want to ] ask for a comparison with the original.

Anyways, I think people start designing levels the same because as time passes, they all see what makes a good level. For me no author will ever just be exactly like another though. It's not possible; people inherently have different ways of thinking and doing things. Not saying it can't come closer than you or anyone else may prefer, but I don't think it's possible to get to a point in which nothing is distinctive either. And I will say that if a level is well designed, rarely will I care too much about how it feels in comparison to another. I don't play Wolfenstein to distinctly remember every level I play; while memorable levels are a bonus (and helps really make a set stand above the crowd), I play it primarily to have fun. And it doesn't matter what author is giving it to me; having fun is having fun.

ack wrote:II was hoping people would experiment more with the added features. I know I tired (and THANK YOU to Andy for getting my level to work and to Ariel for testing it on IADI when I couldn't), but I found a lot of the levels were very straight forward in their design. Not necessarily a bad thing, but when a lot of people take the same approach to level design the community starts to stagnate.

I personally feel my level suffers from this as well, too straight forward. My original concept was better, but I couldn't get it to work. Originally I envisioned it as a constantly moving level, with mutants constantly pushing walls and blocking your path, the room constantly being altered. It didn't work that well in reality because of floor codes, seperate mutants not being able to move pushwalls at the same time and such. And there was a deadline. So to me my end level feels a bit like a watered down version of my original concept.

This poll doesn't ask for a comparison with the original.

Really? Ack gives an interesting opinion and this is the first thing you say... C'mon!

Should put the word 'necessarily' in there...it's not that I minded him comparing or anything, just that I wanted to clarify it isn't required.

What does BMSE stand for?

Beyond Mutantstein Special Edition

ack wrote:I was hoping people would experiment more with the added features. I know I tired (and THANK YOU to Andy for getting my level to work and to Ariel for testing it on IADI when I couldn't), but I found a lot of the levels were very straight forward in their design. Not necessarily a bad thing, but when a lot of people take the same approach to level design the community starts to stagnate.

My level is probably THE most guilty of them all. Pure vanilla mapping is what I do best. I doubt any other entry is conservative to such an extent. And contraty to Ron's level, mine wasn't originally intended to be different, it was actually a vanilla map (not some Trilogy Revisited reject though - a very recent one) modified slightly to fit into the game. Interesting how you still say you're going to remember it despite all that.

I did my best to let go of my original intentions here and decided to do it full-scale Bucksnort style. Lots of mutants, tightly-knit rooms, an outdoor atmosphere anno 2000 and so forth.

And Poet makes the kind of maps that you never forget, mainly because they tinker with your thoughts and grow on you. It's more of a puzzle than a simple map in a game.

At the risk of sounding overly supportive (lol)...

ronwolf1705 wrote:

ack wrote:II was hoping people would experiment more with the added features. I know I tired (and THANK YOU to Andy for getting my level to work and to Ariel for testing it on IADI when I couldn't), but I found a lot of the levels were very straight forward in their design. Not necessarily a bad thing, but when a lot of people take the same approach to level design the community starts to stagnate.

I personally feel my level suffers from this as well, too straight forward. My original concept was better, but I couldn't get it to work. Originally I envisioned it as a constantly moving level, with mutants constantly pushing walls and blocking your path, the room constantly being altered. It didn't work that well in reality because of floor codes, seperate mutants not being able to move pushwalls at the same time and such. And there was a deadline. So to me my end level feels a bit like a watered down version of my original concept.

I personally find the Angel of Death level among the hardest to design. There is only so many ideas and I think all (or most) have been used. I give credit to anyone who attempts an AoD level. Regardless, I really did like the look and feel of your level. I too had planned to make my level with constant pushwalls in play (hence all the extra work Andy kindly did to make my level work), but alas my brain wasn't up to authoring a full blown map in that regard (I had envisioned a 'Metamorphosis II' ala Orb). Your map was a fitting end to a really good set.

serpens wrote:

ack wrote:I was hoping people would experiment more with the added features. I know I tired (and THANK YOU to Andy for getting my level to work and to Ariel for testing it on IADI when I couldn't), but I found a lot of the levels were very straight forward in their design. Not necessarily a bad thing, but when a lot of people take the same approach to level design the community starts to stagnate.

My level is probably THE most guilty of them all. Pure vanilla mapping is what I do best. I doubt any other entry is conservative to such an extent. And contraty to Ron's level, mine wasn't originally intended to be different, it was actually a vanilla map (not some Trilogy Revisited reject though - a very recent one) modified slightly to fit into the game. Interesting how you still say you're going to remember it despite all that.

Even in community sets I like to see complexity and detail increase as the mod progresses (not everybody agrees with that, but so it goes). I wasn't expecting a lot of special features or effects to be used in the first five levels or so. You delivered a solid map that was fun, pretty, and atmospheric (loved the music and choice of ceiling colour too). If you had picked slot 13 (as an example) instead of three, my opinion would be somewhat different. Your vanilla maps are always enjoyable. It was a perfect level for the three slot

Thomas wrote:I did my best to let go of my original intentions here and decided to do it full-scale Bucksnort style. Lots of mutants, tightly-knit rooms, an outdoor atmosphere anno 2000 and so forth.

Anybody who hears me preach knows the emphasis I put on opening, closing, and secret levels. That hasn't changed. The ramparts level in SoD is just as important as it is a bridge between the last three bosses. Using a style true to the Bucksnort tradition (and that was not lost on me when I first played your level) I think you made the transition a real nice ride!

as always - just my opinion.

WolfForever and I have discussed this set quite extensively and he can vouch that I feel almost exactly how Ack does about the set. It is a very good set but it just didn't wow me like I was hoping for and very few of the levels really stood out for me, although Ack's certainly was one of them. Thomas made the best level in the set for mine

More than having levels stand out, I find it about having fun, and there I feel it delivers unarguably. Thus at least 'very good' is assured like Dean/ack said.

Personally I found quite a few standouts in the first 9 levels (Arielus, Hair Machine, ack, WSJ, and Ipank all did for one reason or another) but that's just my own opinion.