Operation Eisenfaust : Origins

How about FemStein? That was a hilarious mod. Suuure this would go over well with girls.

Punch taken

I know I bullshit around a lot, but I really mean that FemStein has a unique character about it. I was never a fan of Hotel Romanstein. That was way too Anime for my taste and how many came out? 6 or 7 or something? So I felt that FemStein conjured up some of the insinuations but took it to a way more tasteful and professional level. I mean, just the washing machine/dryer/clothesline graphics from FemStein makes me smile. It's so thoroughly detailed and entertaining from A to B.

I also seem to remember an ancient crappy graphics patch named "Bob's Girls"... Andy may know more about this. But this also had women guards but I don't think much else.

And when are we going to see a mod where BJ is swapped with an angry feminist? Running around hallways shooting religious fanatics & strip joint owners & pimps, ending up liberating catwalk models and strippers giving lap dances in backrooms? Something for Team Raycast maybe?  

Thomas wrote:I know I bullshit around a lot, but I really mean that FemStein has a unique character about it.
So I felt that FemStein conjured up some of the insinuations but took it to a way more tasteful and professional level.

Just for the protocol - I never knew about Romanstein until only after I released "Femstein"...so I had no particular inspiration for the mod beside me not dating for a long time and thinking - Wolf3D engine will give me an opportunity to create a dream world were women are topless or even more than that...how cool such world could be...well...at that time, and before future nudists meetings - I still thought nude women walking around, stripped from any male imagination regarding them, are in any way sexy and not "walrus nestplace" reminding ...how naiive I was :)The sexiest women are dressed women who make our fantasy work extra time...now I know. But back then I was new to Wolf3D modding and tried to experiment with what I can do (what I thought was a male fantasy at the time) with this new thing/tool I have to make things I cannot do in other way/media...same was for "Sonder". Since then I'm less "rebellious". Age probably
I'd never now release a mod with such first weapon, heh

It's so thoroughly detailed and entertaining from A to B.

Gotta credit legendary WLHack too for coding and mapping...and using "False Spear" engine for it. And for giving me my first opportunity in Wolf3D modding.
Well, by "Punch taken" I meant that I don't believe female nudity

Suuure this would go over well with girls

Not the

That was a hilarious mod.

part of your post.

Something for Team Raycast maybe?  

Won't confirm nor deny one of our mods in development to have female protagonist...

Depends on your point of view if it's picky.
You were nitpicking quite few times graphics and other details about some other mods.
Sure you can ignore some stuff but if you keep noticing such details despite could have been fixed it's just dropping the level of the whole thing.
Especially the bigger the team is.
Easiest to explain this will be with simple image:

Whole thing looks nice but when you see that error it's the only thing that drags your atenttion. It is annoying to look at and breaks whole good impression of all.

About the rain/snow those 64 pixels are relative and so is the ceiling as a layer. Besides it looks like it's coming then from 32 pixel height and what would be then with 128 pixel walls?

Just expected more of a hollywood moon that is directly in front of my face.

About the 3rd arm, why give all a gun then if it's not sure that the experiment works? It's massive waste of firepower and material which can be fatal for a war. Would you rather give weapons to prisoners because they can't use it anyways or give to soldiers who need it in field?
And why they don't take that gun with other arm and start shooting? If maybe hand is too stiff why not chop it off if it's useless anyways and take the gun? Why they tidy floor with broomstick while they have arm on way for movement?

Tree walls directly to walls is not nitpicky especially with such grey sky around them.
Weren't other mods critizised in the past or weren't there mapping tutorials to not put certain background/sky walls directly next to walls? (yes, it is a rethorical question =p )

For the freezer walls you could have asked the mappers no?
Those wrong ceilings i ignored cause it still looked fine.

"Partly remapping so much large levels (which are not your maps) is a hard task to do perfectly."
Yes and so, it's not impossible if you take time for it?

Why is a secret level bound to less realism?

In my opinion the biggest thing that breaks it's neck is that it's one camp level after another. In Wolf3d it didn't matter because you can't really say what the current area is supposed to be graphic wise.
Here it's half way realistic and for Wolf3d highly realistic.

You did some nice graphics and animations but on the other hand there are many different graphic styles and sources. It's quite inconsistent. It seems to jump between Project X, own stuff and Wolf3D. It has a nice scenery and some atmosphere.

Oh and one thing. There are some overly epic music tracks which don't fit. If it's sounds like Final Fantasy and co then it belongs to somewhere else.

The mod is not bad but it's nowhere near the "outstanding" level most people call it.

It tries to shock a lot with violent stuff and provocate to get attention. At least i guess that was intended at some early point.

Why censor it then and replace it with mutants and make rehashed version of Sonderkommando. I like the mutants more cause it's drifting more into fantasy style but it's still censored. You also released this thing called Femstein in 2 versions. You either stick to your thing or you don't. For such derived version alone it should rain minus points from a wall-high skybox.

It's like hollywood vs b-movies or lower. If it's a mega project with high budget, 69666 people working on it,
features and effects everywhere then a bad actor or some broken cgi effect can bring the whole thing to its knees.

If batman in the new batman movie had a paper cape people would eat it alive but if it was a trash movie with batman having a paper cape barely anyone would care.

Potential - expecations

ps. beeing a girl was just a joke to underline color combination, i dont like separating gamers into males/females.

ps#2. sorry for long time to reply, busy with everything arround recently

Atina wrote:Especially the bigger the team is

It's not about how big is the team. This was our first big project as a team, team needs to find it's ways to work effectively and in sync, it's experience as a team...not only as single wolfer, even if everyone are great modders by themselves. Coders of this project changed too frequently and one even abandoned it, source was lost one time...mod developed far beyond our original scope, and mapping started too early (especially relative to coding...and even art at times) with no clear mapping overview/spots, 2 different mappers. Nowdays we prepare the mod much better before any mapping starts. It's art, then coding, then mapping. Many times it's in parallel, but still on this basic route, you don't start mapping until relevant code is done, or before relative art is done or map spot within global plot is clearly defined. Also some coders at the time were less managable and were adding features without proper notice or discussion and those required more and more maps revisiting or even scrapping...not like nowdays. We work much better as a team now....in "Eisenfaust" we were group of good modders - but still learning how to develop big projects and work in a team.

And why they don't take that gun with other arm and start shooting? If maybe hand is too stiff why not chop it off if it's useless anyways and take the gun?

Maybe they need special ammo for it...different caliber from what nazi usually use. Maybe gun is temporary blocked technically from being usable - till they will progress with experiments? Noone wants those not-fully-mutants to start shooting nazis. They may want to call those mutants again and again for more experiment attempts - and noone wants to stitch each time a new 3rd arm back to the body for each such attempt? Just more comfortable....for the goal to have 3rd arm working. Maybe they just wait for the brain to feel the new hand, accept it as their own and connect new brain routes to control it...internal brain rewire. Maybe nazis hope for natural body processes to accept the new hand - and meantime use those mutants for dirty works? Fresh air does miracle.

For the freezer walls you could have asked the mappers no?

I don't want to...go into it right now.

Yes and so, it's not impossible if you take time for it?

I thought I found all, I spent alot of time walking the maps with "wall clipping" in 3D preview of ChaosEdit. Till Balames video - I thought I did a perfect job.
And I wanted to get this issue over with. How many years you can develop the same game, especially such traumatic one?

Why is a secret level bound to less realism?

Because not all players find it anyway, and because it's a nature of secret levels...in many other mods too (G&G0.5 anyone?). Still, we had more realism in them relative to some bonus maps...and sure relative to xmas pack maps.
I'm not a mapper who made that map - so ask him for more details of that particular choice.

It seems to jump between Project X,

This project was actually earlier one...I took nothing directly from Project X I can remember. Maybe Project X later took from us - or we had the same external "inspiration". Art was either from real photos, or new, or from Wolf3D or from other numerous old games.

Oh and one thing. There are some overly epic music tracks which don't fit. If it's sounds like Final Fantasy and co then it belongs to somewhere else.

Original release was with recommendation to play the mod with no music at all, this is how I always played it myself, I hate to play it with music. I don't understand those who prefer to play it with music. But it's a choice for everyone. People did such nice tracks, it just felt wrong to disable them forcefully by default. I don't think many of the music fit their levels or at all.

Why censor it then and replace it with mutants and make rehashed version of Sonderkommando.

You know why...and if you don't - then you'll probably never understand....till you'll experience simular situation.

I like the mutants more cause it's drifting more into fantasy style

Not only that - into classic and safe BJ storyline....with mutants people are used to kill anyway and are less shocked by them suffering...and with non-red blood which looks less....you know.

You also released this thing called Femstein in 2 versions.

Changes were quite small...I think I just replaced frames of one gun (!), that's all.

(post by doomjedi)

I agree, in hindsight it might have been better to just have a hole or a hand with no gun even. Not something that bothers me too much, but I can see why someone would choose a different alternative.

You take things out of context guys. Mutant was used for reasons I've mentioned - and also because we already have frames for such (there is one very rational big reason to use mutants I can't mention here at this point - but I can mention that some other frames (cage ones) were originally made for (scrapped?) "Mutant Uprising" and many of them were made for in "WolfTC for Doomsday" times and released as artpack later... etc...) - and it was FAST (or at least looked like this at first). Context - was me needing to totally rework the other mod (without changing the maps - as mappers forbid that - so I needed current maps to fit new concept with simple art-per-art replacements) from a theme dominant and shown in every part of it - into something totally safe and as distant from the original as I can. This is not an easy task. To come up with a totally new plot to fit existing and detailed mod with finished maps (!) - not easy. (BTW the same was with "Femstein" - art was done first - plot - only later).
And I needed to do that fast because I had no more patience with that mod and wanted to get this over with (especially as we had (and still have) other big projects in parallel development that needed my time and attention).
That was the reason I didn't work removing those 3rd arm. All the other explanations are brain games. Just as the new plot is - something rather forceful and artificial, post-made, being "invented" after the mod is done (and is still for me a perfect plot and concept within limitations I've explained). This is not how mod was intended to be originally and it's all just trying to...make the most out of a hard situation. It's just like I'd want you to rework Orb3D into a nazi game with no map changes and keeping most of the original art in. Easy task? Or reworking EOD into zombie mod without map changes and keeping most of the art. It's working within constraints of time and effort you can allow to put into this at that point of time (especially having other projects on your head you feel emotionally more connected to - than doing reskinning of your beloved and traumatic project out of moral obligations to other people) . You simply can't and is unfair to judge this "mutant plot part" of this mod the same way and "detail"/nitpicking you judge mod that was originally made to be like it is, arted for this, mapped for this. This is not the case here. This was not made or developed as mutant mod at all.
Mappers didn't want to revisit maps - I didn't want to do more artwise that I've needed to release this. 3rd arm is there - just because it existed in original Wol3D mutant art and I wanted to do the minimum art work as I can needed to release this. All other explanation plot-wise was a forceful braingame to explain all that. This mod was not "my" vision/mod - as "my real mod" was scrapped for known reasons. You need to disfigure/dismember and reconstruct your own work by your own hands, destroy your vision and hard work into something totally artifitial - you can't expect someone to have fun painting black paint over his own original "artistic vision". It's just something you do to get over with, done with as fast as you can, out of obligation - for the team who gave it it's best years and best work and talent - and to Wolf3D commmunity which need to have a way to enjoy this mod publically, it's part of it's...history and mod-bank.
My true head was in my parallel other new projects I had at the time.
If not for LinuxWolf - this mod would never see a light of day in any form.
What I really wanted was to work on new fresh project. This one was associated in me with big trauma you don't want to go back to.

From what I know, that was not the point.

Indeed. It was never the point.

I'm so sorry Ron....so sorry.
I did "edit" of your post instead of "quote"...and now all your long answer is lost...Damn this forum...on my forum you can revert back to save the original post.

I'm so sorry. Moment of lack of concentration...hope some were fast enough to read your original post, it was good.

Nitpicking can be seen as a way to refine something. When you nitpick, it means there are not major glaring flaws which by itself is a compliment and a relief. I try to see it as a way to achieve something closer to perfection. Or it can be viewed as an attempt at antagonizing you.

I still managed to read ronwolf's post. His reply was more appealing to me so i go into detail there.

Secret levels tend to be more along the lines of a joke than  insanely unrealistic but they are still bound more less to the  realism of it's own universe. The pacman thing is something unrealistic but if id took the star-sky walls and put space invader enemies instead it would be bit out of pace i think.

Wolf3d areas are recognizable to some degree but i meant the whole thing as one. Used "area" from the mod instead of "level". There it goes level after level and you can't say for sure if you are still in the cellar (not the pink basement slime horror) or on middle of the castle.

Hard to say. In numbers maybe a 7 of 10 and with all those overhappy opnions about the holy grail maybe 6 of 10. (It's just taken out of the blue, feeling wise, +-1 points in any direction possible. Whatever MrWolfForever wants to know or thinks to know when reading this - JUST NO)

Probably would expect some more fine-tuned bug squishing. The wolf4sdl code ranging from menus, sprite-scaling to rain isn't  also made for different resolutions but if you have few programmers across it one sooner or later could have at least tried the rain.

Wasn't it Wolfenstein 3D or also Return To Castle Wolfenstein where you are only 1 episode of the game in the actual castle.

~~~
Could keep so many levels but shuffle the idea of them. You could start a level as prisoner itself without weapon and just live through 1 level by following orders. Guard opens door, drops hint paper on floor and you read that you need to obtain the wire cutter to fix some fence. Next thing is to pick up some food and bring it to them while you snatch a key to your cell.
Next level is a stealth level at night. You do nothing but sneak to some office where you got some plans of the area/war/prison/etc and go back to your cell. Next time it would be some planning with fellow mutants to get some weapons and break free.

Eventually 3 not too long levels (though all the 1 same level but with different blocking zones (guards) or more advanced by using floor codes. If you try to leave they start to shoot you) which still look a prison but will give it some variety by not shooting and just picking up some items.
The loading times could be explained by going to bed in prison cell.
The other time they capture you and transfer you to the next harder prison or to some lab. Or you end up being bound to a wall (player movement 0) and are about being shot.
Or find an item in each level which you will have to give some hidden mutant leader to create an escape for others. Something like the "The Great Escape".
~~~

Keep it smaller but more fine tuned (something that also applies to my mod) or make it bigger and tune it even more.

You could take your creative stealth mod ideas while doomjedi does the graphics from scratch which would take the potential of both. It could be a ninja mod where you have to escape from an ancient prison. You don't need to give lot weapons cause you would need to find a way to avoid enemies or hide somewhere and therefore you could avoid bigger stuff like mounted guns/snipers etc.
At same time you could give an explanation and add details.

Ps. there is another misplaced letter in my first post (atenttion). I'm not kidding.

@ doomjedi
Why is it unfair? You partly even agree that it was a fast rehashed mixed together bowl.
You say yourself you thrown the graphics fast together to just get it out of the way with minimum work and jump into the next "big" project. That's usually not how a big project works.

And you can change only the graphics of the other mods to make it a zombie mod. That's how mods were at beginning, simple graphic swaps but they also got their critizism for it.
Soldier Of Fortune 2 - the cut robot version comes to mind which plays in a parellel world.

About project x + wolf3d i meant that it's a graphic resource salad, which makes it look like lot pieces don't fit together, just not so  extreme here.

At the end of the day you made the decision to do those changes. You never had to "destroy" it.

Atina wrote:I still managed to read ronwolf's post.

I'm so glad you did. I was feeling so guilty for that accident.      

Probably would expect some more fine-tuned bug squishing.

Well, as I said - many different programmers, with different skill levels.
"Eisenfaust" code being buggy was the main reason we scrapped it from use in any of our future (both released and still in work/planned) projects and used new engine (BvsB/B:NML) or other engines as a base, like "Castle Totenkopf SDL".
Also - the larger is the projects coding-wise - the harder is to avoid bugs. Yet I'm not aware of any "surprise" bugs in "Eisenfaust" and it was tested more than any other Wolf3D mod in Wolf3D modding history. All things you mention are not unexpected bugs - and are just things we intentionally didn't bother coding.

~~~

Could keep so many levels but shuffle the idea of them. You could start a level as prisoner itself without weapon and just live through 1 level by following orders. Guard opens door, drops hint paper on floor and you read that you need to obtain the wire cutter to fix some fence. Next thing is to pick up some food and bring it to them while you snatch a key to your cell.
Next level is a stealth level at night. You do nothing but sneak to some office where you got some plans of the area/war/prison/etc and go back to your cell. Next time it would be some planning with fellow mutants to get some weapons and break free.

It's like you give the right answers to wrong questions.
Those are indeed great ideas - if it'd be developed by TR nowdays (and sure great ideas if a remake ever to be done), after we are more experienced to do such and envision our mods in much more overall detail before we actually start mapping for it. You describe what I call nowdays, "mod/scene scripting" (like a movie or TV series) - and this is our current mod approach, in B:NML for example (maybe not to the resolution you describe, but still). In "Eisenfaust" we planned alot of things on the run, sure as the mod's scale got bigger and bigger. We were at the time still making big mod with habits of more oldschool/small mods - just have a VSWAP and making...maps with it within a general storyline. Sure, some levels have specific missions - but still, overall it's just "this is your VSWAP, this is the general plot - start mass-producing maps with it"...even clear map spots were not there at first, just set of made maps (from 2 mappers) we had to order in a logical way, not from map spots - but ideas particular mapper decided to make. Only later - levels were ordered to be consistent design-wise, weather wise (all winter theme sequential, and some levels even reskinned from winter theme to normal or the other way around to fit a map spot, and many other levels needed to be revisited - and more than once, also to add bonus level orbs (much later idea of ours)), day/night-wise and "level of revolt-wise" (mutant agression level towards nazis). Sure later maps and final theme maps were done after we got organized, and are much more...pre-planned.
Resolution of our development process was less to an area or particular scene - but for general feel and storyline + some missions. It was more "here is the feature - use it as well as you can" than feature coming off mapper's requests for particular area of particular level.
Again...it was then. Regarding wirecutters - again right answer to a wrong question. Wirecutters were added much later in mod development and you can see them being underused (totally not used in earlier made levels and used alot of later levels), just as "winder coat" is, and even turrets (taking over them in much later addition and so many are placed in areas/spots not much usable for the player to kill nazis with those...where they do - you can know those were levels made later - after turret could kill nazis. That's why in later Xmas bonus levels we tried to use more underused turrets (in takeover aspect of those) and other underused features that came too late into development of the original project to be used in their full glory).

Hope you'll like our next mod more in this case. It at least starts "slow" in pretty simular way you describe...won't tell more not to spoil.

You say yourself you thrown the graphics fast together to just get it out of the way with minimum work and jump into the next "big" project.

Releasing this mod (reskinned) was LinuxWolf initiative -already after we "totally gave up on the idea" and were developing not less than 2 other new projects (LinuxWolf himself joined TR right into active BvsB development phase). So that was a sidework for both me and LinuxWolf, it's not like I started planning a remake right after cancellation of the original mod. Actually we did - but couldn't come up with the right plot at the time so abandoned that idea for quite a long time.
Don't get me wrong - it was still ALOT of work...just look at the number of "beyond original mutant frames" mutant sprites and animation in the VSWAP, especially as mutants are so...interactive and having so many different death animations. It was much more work than I expected at first...but probably still less than other plot options.

And you can change only the graphics of the other mods to make it a zombie mod. That's how mods were at beginning, simple graphic swaps but they also got their critizism for it.

If we don't change the maps - whatever we could think of - would still make it a WWII era prisoner camp with labs/experiments and areas of gas coming out of the ceiling to make some rooms deadly...and with missions to blow up something, and cut some wires with wirecutter, with prisoner execution areas etc etc etc.......it's not like you can make this into anything....think about it some more - you'll see that in our particular mod you don't have too many options as for alternative plots/reskin. Other mods were much more WWII-generic. And still not fitting zombies I think...

About project x + wolf3d i meant that it's a graphic resource salad, which makes it look like lot pieces don't fit together, just not so  extreme here.

I think it was a nice trubute to original Wolf3D the use of some classic sprites - where it fits the theme, wolfers love to meet their so beloved art in a mod they don't actually expect to find such, nice "cameo". Indeed not all art is consistent - but I still think this mod is relatively quite consistent to many other simular mods outthere. It does create a feeling...of a place.

"Also - the larger is the projects coding-wise - the harder is to avoid bugs.

Obviously same goes for all departments hence the suggestion to make it smaller. How many bugs were killed before then?

this mod had more testing than any Wolf3D mod in human history
it was tested more than any other Wolf3D mod in Wolf3D modding history

 
Btw. it is also the most censored Wolf3D mod in Wolf3D modding history.

It's like you give the right answers to wrong questions

Insert quote of deleted post here

How can i give right answer to wrong question if question was what  vision i have for a possible potential/idea?

You describe what I call nowdays, "mod/scene scripting"

Where did i mention scripting/game-movie like things?  I mentioned quite few simple things which would only need few pick up items and invisible mode.

It doesn't necessarily need to start slow either. I'm usually not a fan of that cause if you replay it's hell of boring. Maps ok sure i get the drift. Not the problem cause most old games were like that but if you have 30+ levels of one camp after another.

it's not like you can make this into anything.

Why would it still be it a prison if you change all the graphics? You could replace the "gas" sprite with a lava sprite and make it a volcano room. And the wire cutter, who doesn't need one if there are fences/cables/strings/guts that could be cut with? Or make it an axe and the fence a wooden piece. Resident Evil (to bridge it to some new mod) has zombies, prisons, explosive missions etc

Sky is the limit

The biggest limit which needs to be dodged will be the ears. Maybe you should think about it some more?

Other mods have mixed graphics and a moon sky but it still makes the graphics mixed and the moon small. You jump into a meat grinder cause others do?

I get it that it was still a lot graphics but doesn't change the things said in last few posts. Bugs left cause didn't bother coding and graphics as well but at same time: "more testing than any other..."
For a such a "big" project it's sort of well, mixed.

Atina wrote:Obviously same goes for all departments hence the suggestion to make it smaller.

Ron already said that if it'd be made nowdays by TR - it'd have much less maps. You can see such approach already in BvsB...noone claimed it has too many maps, heh It had many themes over little levels.
All mods in our current development (or planning) will have less maps than "Origins". Donnow if I can add much beside that. If we'd do it now - it'd be VERY different mod, especially if developed as mutant mod from the start (who knows - maybe we'll make one day another mutant mod and you'll see the difference). But not only as such...I've already listed here long list of conslusions from that project - that we take into notice in our current projects. What more can you ask? We have no current plans to remake "Origins". We learned from it, yes. It's still a good project in it's own and much hard work and thought was put into it, it clearly shows...it's important point in our development as a team - and yes, we'll always learn for the future and try to get better every time. We are in eternal competition with ourselves...and ourselves only.
Not aiming at perfection though...perfection is an enemy for a modder...every good mod is flawed in a way. Endlessly perfect mod would take endlessly perfect time to produce....as any mod can always be ever perfected in some way. At some point one gotta stop, and that's the hardest point for a modder I think...it is for me..no mod will ever be all it could be if and if...not to mention sometimes "more is less", true art has some simplicity grace to it, doesn't look too effort-y. Yes, I could make BvsB better if we'd not set a deadline to ourselves....but we have sequels to do just that (and even in Part 2 we won't show everything we can do and leave much for part 3) - and BvsB itself got some special simplicity "more with less" charm to it. Minimum coding changes, and still it takes you totally different place. Special challenge...Deadline brought some things our of ourselves we didn't knew existed and would've never known. Deadline modding is different type of modding. Sometimes looking at our current "never ending" projects I miss that "deadline" thing, and partly wish we'd set such to ourselves. But deadline has it's price too, it's obvious. Nice to have sometimes for a faster mod to prevent "ever enhancing" - but not for most mods. Most mods need to take their time...to blum fully.

Btw. it is also the most censored Wolf3D mod in Wolf3D modding history.

Well, it has long list of possible broken records I can think of... heh
A few more records broken would have killed me, heh.

How can i give right answer to wrong question if question was what  vision i have for a possible potential/idea?

How can I reply to suggestion for a mod we don't plan to make or remake at this point? It's a suggestion for a mod that doesn't exist and is not developed.

Why would it still be it a prison if you change all the graphics?

If we're changing all of something (some mod's area) - it's easier to make a new mod sometimes - than working hard to find a use of maps made for other theme, plot...why not to rework all maps? Or all code?
I tried to do more with less. As far from original mod - with least of changes. That was the point, and I think I made a good job. As after you work 4 years on a Wolf3D mod - you don't want to spend as much time to remake it.
If you replace "all" of whatever - yes, you can make it into anything. Thought easiler to make a new mod.

You could replace the "gas" sprite with a lava sprite and make it a volcano room.

Volcano room....sure...that fits ton of plots...So one is walking in a camp that have volcano rooms...  

Or make it an axe and the fence a wooden piece.

This is nice idea actually. For zombie mod.

Other mods have mixed graphics and a moon sky but it still makes the graphics mixed and the moon small.

I don't like that small moon nightsky as well (but I'm less picky about it). Ok, I'll consider to use new star sky for one of future mods...don't promice though. I think I've made such sky before....was it for "Eridu" project? Probably....it had space battles in it's plot...with no moon in sight. I'll check my old Eridu folders.

Secret levels tend to be more along the lines of a joke than  insanely unrealistic but they are still bound more less to the  realism of it's own universe. The pacman thing is something unrealistic but if id took the star-sky walls and put space invader enemies instead it would be bit out of pace i think.

Well, I wouldn't say a joke per se. But you're not bound to the constraints of normal levels i.e. you can use the coding features in a more 'unrealistic' fashion, so to speak. You're less bound by realism. But they can be jokey, true. And they are indeed still bound to the universe they take place in.

Wolf3d areas are recognizable to some degree but i meant the whole thing as one. Used "area" from the mod instead of "level". There it goes level after level and you can't say for sure if you are still in the cellar (not the pink basement slime horror) or on middle of the castle.

Ah alright, in that case I agree with you. Coding features have given us the tools to make the distinction clearer.

Hard to say. In numbers maybe a 7 of 10 and with all those overhappy opnions about the holy grail maybe 6 of 10.

Based on your feedback, I think this is a fair assessment. Don't let others bring this mod down for you xD (but thanks if you really like this mod  )

Whatever MrWolfForever wants to know or thinks to know when reading this - JUST NO)

     

Wasn't it Wolfenstein 3D or also Return To Castle Wolfenstein where you are only 1 episode of the game in the actual castle.

I think it might be both, though it's been a while since I've played RTCW. But this relates to the level number as well, it's just too many levels in one setting. And sure you can have different settings within the main setting, but it still takes place in one camp. It's a case of quantity over quality. And when you're 15, you are more inclined to go for the first one. You live, you learn.  

Could keep so many levels but shuffle the idea of them. You could start a level as prisoner itself without weapon and just live through 1 level by following orders. Guard opens door, drops hint paper on floor and you read that you need to obtain the wire cutter to fix some fence. Next thing is to pick up some food and bring it to them while you snatch a key to your cell.
Next level is a stealth level at night. You do nothing but sneak to some office where you got some plans of the area/war/prison/etc and go back to your cell. Next time it would be some planning with fellow mutants to get some weapons and break free.

Eventually 3 not too long levels (though all the 1 same level but with different blocking zones (guards) or more advanced by using floor codes. If you try to leave they start to shoot you) which still look a prison but will give it some variety by not shooting and just picking up some items.
The loading times could be explained by going to bed in prison cell.
The other time they capture you and transfer you to the next harder prison or to some lab. Or you end up being bound to a wall (player movement 0) and are about being shot.
Or find an item in each level which you will have to give some hidden mutant leader to create an escape for others. Something like the "The Great Escape". Keep it smaller but more fine tuned (something that also applies to my mod) or make it bigger and tune it even more

These are all nice ideas. You could do a timed level - the guards will check your cell after a certain time and then you have to be back. In the meanwhile you can sneak around, be it because you can unlock your door, be it through a hidden hole in the wall or something. Of course, for those ideas you would need a really great coder to pull it off. It's ambitious, but there are so few outstanding coders who have the skills to implent. But in essence, I like the idea. This approach is actually closer to the way we approach our mods now, looking at features from level to level. Personally gameplay ala the original Wolf3D becomes too stale for me. I prefer more variation, which is what Eisenfaust at times lacks. I think a proposal such as yours fixes that. 

Are you working on a mod yourself, Atina? You have some good ideas, very creative, would be cool to see you create a mod.

You could take your creative stealth mod ideas while doomjedi does the graphics from scratch which would take the potential of both. It could be a ninja mod where you have to escape from an ancient prison. You don't need to give lot weapons cause you would need to find a way to avoid enemies or hide somewhere and therefore you could avoid bigger stuff like mounted guns/snipers etc.

You should play Sight, a small mod I did where you have to avoid being seen by anyone. But more stealthy approaches are in some of the Team Raycast WIP mods, because I'm a big fan of stealth myself.

(checked really carefully this time to do "quote" and not "edit" (at first I was scared to quote Ron's post as all with the previous "trauma"    )

I think it might be both, though it's been a while since I've played RTCW. But this relates to the level number as well, it's just too many levels in one setting. And sure you can have different settings within the main setting, but it still takes place in one camp.

And again I'm here to remind us "Origins" is a mutanty reskin of a more realistic mod about very specific place which bounded us to some things...we couldn't add endless themes because the original camp was limited in such...and we couldn't go too far in our imagination. We did have quite some themes to cover I think all we could think of, beside toilet areas maybe. What other "themes" could we originally add?
If we'd develop it as mutant mod from the start, we sure could think of more themes related to mutant-making process. Not only more extended labs, but different phases and tools of mutant making...I could imagine even area with weird disfigured (attacking) mutants from all the failed experiments....2 heads, 4 legs....whatever. Maybe shooting range to train mutants to aim well, even training gym...etc etc....Rooms with mutants being brainwashed listening to nazi radio....

Are you working on a mod yourself, Atina? You have some good ideas, very creative, would be cool to see you create a mod.

My thoughts exactly. As we don't plan to remake "Origins" - such ideas can go to waste...maybe you should try to do mutant mod the "right way".

doomjedi wrote:Not only more extended labs, but different phases and tools of mutant making...I could imagine even area with weird disfigured (attacking) mutants from all the failed experiments....2 heads, 4 legs....whatever. Maybe shooting range to train mutants to aim well, even training gym...etc etc....Rooms with mutants being brainwashed listening to nazi radio....

You're one twisted individual Doom Jedi. 

yeah i am working on a mod for like 2 years now, but cause of too
many creative ideas, constant features adding, lack of time, programming
skills, maps reworking (not wolf3d style), graphics and so on (yeah i wanna
it to be as perfect as it can be) it will never be done. But hopefully will be
done this one day.

So far i made only some levels for deathtrigger.
Will take a look at stealth when i have time for it.

Doomjedi you managed to miss nearly each point and reflected all
on your own stuff. I dare to ask which records would that be? (expecting long list of this project is
biggest mod in wolf3d history awesomeness guiness book records).

Atina wrote:yeah i am working on a mod for like 2 years now, but cause of too
many creative ideas, constant features adding

Sorry to hear that...but it's hardly surprising. But we are all humans, I myself find it hard to stop adding ideas to a mod.

So far i made only some levels for deathtrigger.

Fantastic mod, was really inspiring for me. Showed some creative ideas and strong potential. Underpeciated mod it is, a bit under the radar. I see now it even has youtube walkthroughs...niiiice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaijrIoFvOQ

I dare to ask which records would that be?

Let's forget it (?)....so many expectations...don't want to dissapoint.

Absolutely love this mod. Just saying. Perfect and very true to the original Wolf3D feel.

Oh, thank you very much!
Keep watching for our next mods, we only try to get better each time

Thanks for vids. Currently am in the secret level 30 with the moral choices. Interesting and very difficult! 
I'm trying to win in without hurting fellow mutants..

Good luck!

Balames proved the task is possible...

Some secrets were hard to get to when I first played it.

Any way to use a modern WASD + mouse scheme? Pressing strafe modifier and using Y-axis for moving with mouse is ridiculous.

It's so interesting to Return To Danger sounds were used for the guard, SS, officer in the dog.

Officer-Michael John wrote:officer in the dog.

Isn't that illegal? 

My funny idea:)

Dark_wizzie - did you get my PM?

Popup blocker is blocking the PM notification popup on my own forum, lol. Received.