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    Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

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    WolfForever
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    Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:28 pm

    The Dome awards had gone on for a decade, starting in 2002, before being discontinued this year. However, while there were many, many projects that got a well-deserved award, I feel there were also, sometimes, awards given out to releases that overall didn't really deserve one.

    Therefore, I thought I'd create a thread to discuss, focusing on one year at a time (from most to least recent), the deservability of releases which received awards that year. Thus the year of focus will start on 2011. There is no fixed amount of time in which the discussion will be on any particular year; it will be more determined by that when responses start dropping off for a particular year, I'll consider changing the focus to the previous year. So there is no need to cover a whole year at once since it'll pretty much be the centerpoint as long as participation suggests it should be. And it is okay to talk about a particular release from a different year if it happens to really be in your mind at a given time; the year of focus is just a guideline so we aren't all looking at hundreds of awards at once.

    The talk can be as simple as "deserved" or "did not deserve" if you'd like, with maybe just a few quick thoughts on why, or you can feel free to make an explanation or even a mini-review of the release if you'd like. So there's no real minimum or maximum amount of detail for this. Smile And there is no need to comment on every award (even if I do) - preferably mention the ones you've played at least but in the end, it's your choice.

    All awards can be found here. So let the discussion begin! Smile I'll always have the current year of focus at the very bottom of this post for convenience.

    Current year of focus: 2001 mentionables - use the Dome news archive (July-December 2001)

    Note: After 2002, this thread will turn into a highlight of what I feel were some of the mentionable releases (still by month) of the previous few years; the possible would-have-been awards in my view per se.


    Last edited by WolfForever on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:42 pm; edited 17 times in total

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:41 pm

    And to get things started, starting to dig into 2011 from my views (I'm starting with most recent, but there's no particular order that should be followed within a given year):

    Nov 2011: Spear Ress. 10 Year Edition - I haven't played it, but even though most seem to say it isn't as good as the original, I would tend to think anything from Areyep is worthy of an award.

    Oct 2011: Haven't played any of the three awarded mods but I would have little doubt the Majik Monkee and Thomas ones were good enough to get an award.

    Sept 2011: DHW TC - Only played the first episode, but I generally liked it, so based on that I'd say award-worthy.

    July 2011: Ipank7000 Mapset - I haven't played it, and don't really intend on playing it, because I played 15 Master Levels and I'm assuming the levels he recycled in that set were the best ones from this set.

    June 2011: The Spear: - None of Penguindog's releases really caught my attention, to be honest, but I can't say for sure since I should at least try them.

    Apr 2011: This month contains the most recent award I've fully played - Sextilogy! And I had a lot of fun with it; the SDL version is a big jump over older versions, and I though the new episode was designed very well. So very much deserved; I'm sad Executor lost the file and abandoned the project. Sad I haven't played the other awarded ones from the month though.

    Mar 2011: Reference June for Penguindog's release. Regarding This Spear, I did playtesting for it and liked it quite a lot; definitely much, much more than SHS. It is a rock solid SoD mapset and one I fully support the award for.

    Jan 2011: DHW SDL Wolf3D - Haven't played all of it but really, really should. Everything I have played is great. I'd say it's basically a shoe-in for deserving the award.

    Note that just because I decided to cover the whole year in one post doesn't mean you have to! You can feel free to go at any pace you desire. Smile

    Additionally, I might try some of the "did not play" ones while 2011 remains the focus.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:25 pm

    I played a little bit of Ipank, seemed decent and 60 levels gives me a bit of inspiration to draw from. DHW SDL was quite nice, I used one map as inspiration for a part of a map for This Spear. Of course, I played This Spear, considering the fact that I made it. Smile I liked This Spear. Some people have qualms judging their own sets, but why? How can you make better maps when you cannot honestly compare you maps to others? That's what people do when they play your maps, anyways.

    I think This Spear had all-around nice levels, but I think it was 11 or 12, could use a little boost. If I decide to make That Wolf3d, I'll look at Ipank's set again and play a few other SDL mapsets. I would not have bothered to look at Ipank's set if I didn't like it, so it must be pretty decent at least/



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:52 pm

    @Dark_wizzie I really appreciate your participation; I wish other members would do so as well! Any idea of what I might be able to do to attract some more interest? Would sending messages asking for participation be intrusive?

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:04 pm

    Not sure, to be honest. Give it a shot.



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:27 pm

    I'll try the advice.

    Whatever the result, thanks for your participation. Smile

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:17 am

    I never cared much for awards of any sort, I play what I like and make what I like and if I get an 'award' I don't really care. Brian's too sweet about the whole thing, I think, but in a way that's good and encouraging. I remember some of my early mods getting awards, and this was when EoD was still fresh.

    So I am not going to say whether or not awards were deserved. I am however going to say that Ipank's maps are fun, fresh and really worth checking out for inspiration. It really blew my mind that in 2012, a brand new member of the community can still put out map sets. Same goes for Wizzie, though his maps are more 'avant-garde' and extremely demanding. It's good to play if you want to polish your skills or get inspiration if you should ever do maps with Chris Chokan. Smile

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:03 am

    Even if you don't say deserved/not deserved, giving your two cents on anything is still good input. Smile

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by ronwolf1705 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:10 am

    Thomas' view is pretty much how my view is as well.




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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by giftmacher on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:54 pm

    Same here. That's the common problem with those "best this, best that" awards. It's all about personal preferences and public appearance. And in this case, it's all about a personal opinion of one person (no offence intended at all). Get along well with that person and your chances of getting such an award will highly increase, that's only natural.
    Of course, giving out awards and receiving them is fun, and that's why we're here for in the first place. Then again, to discuss whether or not a particular award is deserved is quite pointless IMHO. pirate

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:09 pm

    @Thomas wrote:I never cared much for awards of any sort, I play what I like and make what I like and if I get an 'award' I don't really care. Brian's too sweet about the whole thing, I think, but in a way that's good and encouraging. I remember some of my early mods getting awards, and this was when EoD was still fresh.

    So I am not going to say whether or not awards were deserved. I am however going to say that Ipank's maps are fun, fresh and really worth checking out for inspiration. It really blew my mind that in 2012, a brand new member of the community can still put out map sets. Same goes for Wizzie, though his maps are more 'avant-garde' and extremely demanding. It's good to play if you want to polish your skills or get inspiration if you should ever do maps with Chris Chokan. Smile
    I think awards still mean something. It's limited, but it's feedback. Do you know how much feedback I got from This Spear? About 2 people commented on it if I don't count people that took part in the making of it. (You included.) I don't know how many people played it and I can only go by the comments I get from people that have played it. Although Brian is pretty 'sweet', I doubt he'd give the award if the add-on in question is crap. Did he go easy on SHS? I don't know. I still stand by the difficulty because I took time to make an easy version. In fact, Brian wouldn't have handed out the award for that had there been no easy version. The current award system ain't perfect, but it's not too bad either. We could get some community vote score from 1-100 or something. That sounds like a decent idea now I think about it. It'd make people play new add-ons and judge them. There's the added benefit of the judgement, from the variety of opinions.

    And Thomas, what do you mean by extremely demanding? Do you mean that the levels are still very difficult for you? Difficulty is a hard one to deal with because what people consider "medium difficuly", I consider to tbe UberNoob difficulty. Not all people agree on what is "difficult" or not, and that's a problem. (And that's what the difficult levels are for.)


    --
    About This Spear though: I'd like more feedback. I like feedback about what I made, and it could go towards my next mapset. Speaking of which, where is Dean?! Rolling Eyes



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolferCooker on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:44 pm

    I read on DHW recently that Richter feels so ashamed that he made Project X because he didn't get the feedback he expected it to have.

    Well like someone said there that this is 20 year old engine and barely anyone in the newest generation knows a thing about Wolf3d. It's the Gen-Xers and Gen-Yers (ones that are around my age).

    And it's all about modern portable games now, so who else would wanna mess with a 20 year old game engine or even comment about Wolf3d other than us die-hard Wolfers?

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:57 pm

    That's very sad, I think Richter's work was pretty decent. More of a coder than a mapper, and he had coding chops.



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:30 pm

    Let's get what we can from 2010! Moving right on once any few commentors seem to have run their course. I'll go for the whole year again.

    Dec 2010: Foxenstein - Didn't play. It is TOO MAZEY.

    Nov 2010: Operation End Epidemic - Played, and was very worthwhile middle part of a trilogy. I have the finale isn't cancelled! So this was good to award.

    Oct 2010: Sod Haven Style - Sorry, this is much too hardcore for me. Too many bosses in particular. Did not really appeal to me (thankfully This Spear did).

    June 2010: SoD Reloaded - Fantastic, and very challenging set. Only real problem is the end seems rushed (after the spear). Lots of cool features and good designs. A very worthy contender.

    Apr 2010: Totenkopf SDL - Despite a few bugs, this is a huge achievement IMO and was a real adventure to play. It didn't seem old, even if the maps were the original Totenkopf maps. Bugs removed, and this would be true AAA, but as is it's still a really good mod and was just-fully awarded.

    Feb 2010: Acktung 2 - I always love ack's vanilla mapping. This is possibly his best full set he did on his own. Strictly only a GAMEMAPS and MAPHEAD replacement, but kept me going through the whole thing and I wasn't waiting for it to be over. These are what show how good plain mapsets can still be! Smile

    Jan 2010: Confrontation - Never was a big fan of Bucksnort maps, even though they are okay for pastime usually.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:44 pm

    Played Totenkopf SDL, it was interesting... little weird that sniper fire does less damage thans niper fire when using a scope, but not really a problem and this has been done before in Enemy Territory. Music is a bit repetive, the style is too similar. I'm not sure if the ceiling and floor textures glitched by itself or after I edited a level.

    Acktung 2 is priceless and an excellent resource in which to draw inspiration from.
    Sod Reloaded was interesting as well, had some interesting features.

    For some reason, mods like Sod Reloaded or Eisenfaust doesn't really jive with the way I like playing Wolf3d... the "feel". I can't quite put a finger on it and it's not a huge factor in my enjoyment.

    Sod, Haven Style - The biggest problem for me isn't the difficulty. There are not enough challenger-level mapsets, and frankly that gets boring, even with mapping like ack's. I need some difficulty to spice things up from time to time. The problem here is amount of bosses. Not the difficulty of the bosses, but how it kills the flow of the game entirely (having to strafe multiple times each level is annoying and having a boss each level is predictable), especially when coupled with too many mutants and not enough real guards. That ratio is off and leads to the player feeling like they are playing Mutantstein instead of WOlfenstein. My mapping continues to evolve after that and even while I made This Spear, so there was still much more to be learned. Another thing I didn't like is how I had to put pushwalls in front of doors to prevent the order of guards from getting screwed up. That also messes with the flow of the game and looks pretty out of place, it's degrding aesthetically. After SHS I made sure therer was a proper guard limit set, so I can remove mutants, add some dogs... I feel those were left out in SHS after the first (or was it second?) level.

    When you haev a level like Omniscient (level 18, SHS) and the guards literally fill entire rooms, it's too overwhelming. Other things can be done to increase fdifficulty. Adding more guards is a copout to level design, sometimes. However, with level 18 I wanted it to be a serious Nazi base with many guards to show this is where the personanel are getting serious... even then, it's too much and too difficult, hardcore even by my standards.

    The wastelands level (first level) however, I stand by it. I think the difficulty at the start is brilliant, and presents a unique challenge in a level with a new level design I had never thought of before. Instead of rectangular mossy rooms, I have a...well, wastelands-style level, with multiple entrances/exits. I liked the decoration, I felt it was almost spot on. Of course, the variety of guards was out of whack, AND the difficulty of that level is about as high as the most difficult map in the add-on, driving everybody away.



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:44 am

    Spear of Destiny Reloaded for me. I had totally forgotten about acktung 2. I really need to play ack's stuff more (vanilla EXE with 3-square moving pushwalls, anyone?!?) -- but 2010 seemed a pretty thin year for mods. Apparently I didn't release anything (was too busy working my ass off on maps I scrapped ) but SOD Reloaded takes the cake for me. The mine carts alone!

    And Eric, I don't know what I meant when I wrote that, haven't played your stuff for ages, will do when I have the time and then give you decent feedback.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:52 am

    @Thomas wrote:

    And Eric, I don't know what I meant when I wrote that, haven't played your stuff for ages, will do when I have the time and then give you decent feedback.
    Cool, thanks. I want some more feedback, some from Dean and Valts, before I even attempt more maps.



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:53 am

    Why do you need feedback from those two, exactly? Just make what you want, who cares about feedback.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:26 am

    @Thomas wrote:Why do you need feedback from those two, exactly? Just make what you want, who cares about feedback.
    It helps me recognize any flaws in my mapping. Plus, I like reading feedback. Razz Also, I probably won't start until mid-December, meaning they probably have given their feedback by then.



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:16 am

    I don't know about Dean. He's a busy man, it seems.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:18 am

    He's only had like, more than a year Rolling Eyes If you're going to say you're going to play it soon and give feedback, then interview me on his blog, I'd expect something after a year and a half, lol. If he doesn't have anything and can't play, I'll just have to make maps without it. Not going to cry over it. Laughing



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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:37 am

    @Dark_wizzie: I think your This Spear maps were quite nice as is. I also must admit I think you properly summed up the faults of SHS in a more detailed way compared to my brief analysis. The main problem probably isn't the difficulty, but rather the enemy placement. Especially the constant, almost casual use of bosses outside of boss levels is a monster no-no in my book. An occasional one holding a key or in a well places area isn't a big problem, but having many in a room, or multiple areas in a level with one really disrupts the flow. You hit the nail in the head there. Smile

    @Thomas: Any thoughts to Totenkopf SDL?

    And @both I'm surprised no mention of Operation: End Epidemic, unless you want the full trilogy at once.

    Anyways since we have a little three-member conversation here and that looks like that's what it will be (and three is far better than none!) I thought I'd move this right on, since the couple comments above will pretty much close that year out. Time for 2009!:

    Dec 2009: NovoWolf - A true Thomas Weiling masterpiece, for his first SDL-based release (this is also about when SDL started to get on its feet, if I recall). I didn't like Level 9 very much (big mazes aren't fun!) and I felt the boss level could have been a bit more of a climax. However, otherwise this is Thomas at his finest, totally a no-brainer to have gotten the recognition IMO. I loved how Thomas recycled that wacky music from Level 29 of Chemical Warfare here (Level 15, if I recall) as well. Also Dec 2009: Project X - I think Richter went a bit too far on the DHW forums, but I didn't get into it much at all to be honest. The mapping needs improvement, at the very least.

    Nov 2009: Krucible The Wasteland - Never was a fan of Venom. Effects over anything else. This is the stuff that makes a fair enough first impression simply based on effects, but I don't think it's good otherwise. Definitely not anything special overall.

    Oct 2009: Hotel Romanstein - Maybe people who like very silly and non-serious sets might enjoy this, but I hardly played a couple levels.

    May 2009: Frayed - Venom Inc. again, see Krucible. Same thoughts here.

    Apr 2009: Step Two - Not really a fan of Harry Mass Sr. Also Apr 2009: Umbrella Beginnings - This is Episode 1 of the trilogy that has Operation: End Epidemic, and I recall playing and enjoying both episodes at once.

    And there was nothing else to award that year. I don't think anything from 2009 was really superb except NovoWolf, so it's definitely release of the year for me. My second place would probably go to Endlosung, but that didn't even get an award, and Umbrella Beginnings would be third place and these are pretty much the only three I found worthwhile. Slow year for sure; even 2010 was better. And this is the first year where I first noticed as I was typing things how many of the awards went to stuff that seemed quite mediocre.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:57 am

    @WolfForever wrote:@Thomas: Any thoughts to Totenkopf SDL?
    Together with End of Destiny and Eisenfaust Origins, my absolute favorite mod of all time in the non-"Vanilla" category. WSJ really topped himself with this one.

    @WolfForever wrote:NovoWolf - A true Thomas Weiling masterpiece, for his first SDL-based release (this is also about when SDL started to get on its feet, if I recall). I didn't like Level 9 very much (big mazes aren't fun!) and I felt the boss level could have been a bit more of a climax. However, otherwise this is Thomas at his finest, totally a no-brainer to have gotten the recognition IMO. I loved how Thomas recycled that wacky music from Level 29 of Chemical Warfare here (Level 15, if I recall) as well. Also Dec 2009: Project X - I think Richter went a bit too far on the DHW forums, but I didn't get into it much at all to be honest. The mapping needs improvement, at the very least.
    NovoWolf was fragmented as hell. Started in the summer of 2007, left alone until fall 2008 and then patched together and released around Christmas '09. Yes, maze levels suck major ass, but I just had to include one. I could never use the pipe panels for anything else but mazes. I mean, come on. And Control Deck 17 as the CW tune is called is a Chris Chokan composition. I've always dug it. I've used it a lot, it was slated to be included with Overkill as a MIDI file in an "extended" mix that was lying around in Chris' "Baked" zip file which I've hauled out every once in a while, browsing for music.

    And Richter, or Kyo, or whatever, is just being brain-dead honest about the whole thing. I understand his frustration. It's tough to shake off a shitty image you get planted on you by people who apparently know much better and have been around much longer. Plus, he has Asperger's, so I bond with him there. Give the man a break. Terrific coding and good ideas - but mapping was always the weakness in his mods. 66 levels is not a problem for me, but he obviously demands public appeal and recognition and therefore any number of levels above 40 is a definite no-go.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:20 am

    That's pretty much what and all I meant to say about Proj X. Just too many maps, and not great design. But I can understand his frustration, especially with aspergers.

    That no more than 40 levels thing, I don't get. Your ATAW got a lot if recognition with SEVENTY!

    The maze in NovoWolf is just too big, that's all. Smaller maze, and wouldn't have been much of an issue. But it's just one level - great mod all the same, like I said. You should have gotten something for Endlosung too IMO. Your two releases are my favorites in 2009.

    And Chris Chokan, no wonder its a great tune. Wait until we get to '07...

    Flashing into 2010 for a moment though, how can SoD Reloaded be your mod of the year pick yet Totenkopf be in your top three and Reloaded not? Doesn't make sense, to me.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:46 am

    Because I don't look at lists or anything, I just remember mods by coincidence. When, where and how exact Wolf mods were released isn't something I carry with me, or know much about. And screw 'of the year'. I can't do that. I just say SoD Reloaded and Totenkopf are terrific mods that I love. That is it.

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    Post by WolfForever on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:56 pm

    That's reasonable, especially for older stuff the release date doesn't really matter much - I either like it or don't.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by lilmanjs on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:01 pm

    SoD Reloaded is awesome! Though it took me forever to beat that first boss. Such a hard boss for the first one you encounter. And to get to work with those 2 on Final Fight 2, I'm seeing some great mapping going on. Totenkopf SDL is the only other mod I even remember playing from 2010 and I loved that one and thought it was worthy of my top 5 mods ever made. Though I think its in the top 10 now as there are other mods I've gone back to and had more fun with. Still SoD Reloaded is I think better just because they really knew how to use the advanced coding better and the pacing was a little tighter. Can't wait till we get to 2007. I bet mine will be the least liked of the mods that won awards that year. Very Happy





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    Post by WolfForever on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:03 pm

    @lilmanjs: I think one of the main points of 2007's talk will be around one single level, and it isn't anything you were involved in.

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by lilmanjs on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:13 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:@lilmanjs: I think one of the main points of 2007's talk will be around one single level, and it isn't anything you were involved in.
    Can't think of a level that would get that much talk from one of the mods that won awards in 2007, but still the little team that made Final Fight won an award. Still one of the hardest levels I've ever played is that boss level Ack made for the final episode.





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    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:21 pm

    Hardest level? Who what when where how?



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    Post by WolfForever on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:39 pm

    Well admittedly there isn't much to recall from 2009, especially with Thomas having made two of this years' only three releases I deem good or better. I thought I'd get to 2008 (if it's too fast, changing years doesn't mean you can't recite another year; it just means not much seems left for conversation):

    Dec 2008: Two awards, and polar opposite opinions. W.O.L.F. is another wonderful set by Thomas with the original game in mind. That's always a safe route to go, and even safer when mapping is your strong point. There isn't a standout level, but that's because they are basically all very good without exception. It's yet another mapset that shows that it's never a problem to stay with the tried and trusted. One of the best releases of the year (the "one of" would probably go away, in fact, if it wasn't for the paragraph below this). But the other award for Hotel Romanstein; well, just reference my 2009 talk about that one.

    Sep 2008: Absence - Another top release of the year, and it's even been moved into SDL! A lot of really advanced coding went into this and it feels part like an adventure game as much as a shooter. There is that secret key you have to get on the first level, and one could argue it's mildly repetitive, but those are hardly even small blemishes. It's a great mod and far and away the best sci-fi one ever made, removing you completely from the realm of World War II.

    Aug 2008: Lost Worst Part I The Dark Orthodox - Unfortunately, I think this is standard Richter, with lots of effects and features that try to really sugarcoat it, but is brought down by uninteresting/mediocre mapping.

    Jul 2008: Booenstein - I never touched this yet and I'm not familiar with the author at all so I'm deciding not to give any opinion. But there was a set of Spear of Destiny levels called Chrono that should have snatched some more recognition that month, IMO.

    Jun 2008: Resistant - Another one of those TC's that have so many new things and ideas but just can't get the job done in the end. There were a lot of these prior to 2010 or so (in my opinion).

    May 2008: Klooni - Didn't work all that well in Dos but it's a formidable effort, really capturing the Doom feel for me, and with good mapping that can be expected from KFH Games. This is one where the effort at making a different game (even if it's ultimately a Doom clone) isn't blown by mediocrity deep down under. Also in May, Castle Grom - This is a short set I played one Saturday morning. It wasn't anything special, but I didn't regret spending the time to give it one playthrough either. And it has a couple nice code changes.

    Apr 2008: The Bitter End - Really feel I've made it clear enough by now that I enjoy stuff Thomas does. Even if it was a bit of a patchwork, this is not an exception. Smile

    Jan 2008: Weltgericht - Enjoyable at first, but then gets too hardcore, which is basically a problem I have with all of Mario/Mega's collaborative releases.

    Overall: I'm going to say Absence takes the cake because it is just really all round impressive and unique regardless of any small blemish here or there - its originality and feel just cannot be faulted. Thomas really gave us a treat in December though with W.O.L.F., which just lacks the uniqueness factor of Absence. I can't really compare them because they are so totally different. Klooni was an impressive effort, even if it isn't original, and of course The Bitter End was another fine contribution (few from Thomas aren't).

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:33 pm

    I only played Absense. I like the unique ideas in the coding/features. Not as much of a fan of the theme though. When people go off from Nazi/Nazi monsters, I don't like it as much. Just personal preferrence.



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    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:21 am

    Absence and Klooni, the former for its sheer brilliance and the sad fact that it's enormously underrated (or maybe it's just me who've missed something) and the latter for its ability to transform the Wolf engine into DooM perfectly. Would I play Klooni? No way in hell. But that's a personal thing. I'm not that big a DooM fan and if I want to play DooM I will play the real game. But it's still quality work, very well made and certainly one of the best of 2008 and the last five years. "Booenstein"? Never heard of it. Weltgericht - never played it. So I can only rate the two - Absence and Klooni does it for me for 2008.

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    Post by ronwolf1705 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:28 am

    Absence is one of the best mods ever. Top 5 for me.




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    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:45 am

    I might be inclined to agree with Ron here, or at least go top 10. It truly sets itself out to engage you in a unique world of its very own - and is one of very few that truly pull that off with resounding success. Havoc really made one of a kind here.

    @Thomas I know this is from 2011, but since I saw you mention Ipank directly: Did you ever play through his 60 level Wolf3D set (this predated 15 Master Lecels) and if so what was your overall opinion on it?

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    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:06 am

    I never played through it. I haven't got the time to play through entire sets most of the time. I just dug most of the levels on Episode 5, and looked the rest over and saw a lot of prosperity in that guy.

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    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:21 am

    What does it mean when you say "dug"? Is it the one episode you did play (and you liked it)?

    I know E5L1 is very hard especially if you don't find the secret ammo/health (this map was reused as the first in 15 Master Levels).

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    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:20 am

    All right, enough. It's been fun, this "mark III of the community"-thing, but the constant craving for explanation and opinions from you topped off with jpb6891's religious/non-mod bullshit is really starting to make me want to stay away from these forums. I LIKED SOME OF IPANK'S MAPS AND I THINK HE'S A GREAT ADDITION TO THE COMMUNITY. That is it. No more. If you ask one more question I... I'm gonna bitch-slap you via e-mail.

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    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:00 am

    Well I can't help what jpb does (I just IGNORE IT) but I'll back off on the direct requesting of opinions. Smile

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    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:03 am

    You've already said that in a private message. This is second warning, man! Three times and I'll totally make all my maps symmetric and mazey and dedicate them to YOU.

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    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:10 am

    If you don't want what is in my opinion just trying to be constructive criticism, I have no problem not giving it. And I understand this is the second warning with opinion over-requesting so I agree I really must STOP there and will.

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    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:23 am

    I don't mind constructive criticism, but you just keep raving on and on and on and on... Just let me make what I want. You seem to want to push your so-called constructive criticism down my throat. Saying I shouldn't be too symmetric with the Lost Episodes map set and all. Let me tell you one thing. LE sucks so much. If I had played that as I child, I would've cried at night dreaming of the REAL game. The whole shit is MADE for symmetry, since everything from guards to walls and sprites are so cubic and mongoloid. I fucking hate making it. But - a challenge is a challenge.

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    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:36 pm

    Of course make what you want, I end up liking at least 90% of your maps a lot, probably more. Smile Yes LE - if you are referring to the first mission (Return to Danger) is quite terrible and you summed up my opinion of it with yours pretty well. However I honestly didn't find the other one (Ultimate Challenge) to be as bad. Sure it's got the same graphics and sprites, but at least you have to PLAY the levels (many of which are quite big too), and most of them aren't symmetrical, at least not the entire level. It seemed to be a bit less blatantly "blocky" too, if I'm interpreting correctly what you mean with that term. Of course though, that's just my opinion of it, and you are free to have yours (and don't have to tell me what it is). Smile

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by lilmanjs on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:31 pm

    Absence kicks ass and Klooni is the best Doom to Wolf conversion ever made. Though when it was announced, I expected that and got nothing less. Absence is one of the rare non-WII mods that has lots of code changes and has mapping that fits the atmosphere the creator is going for. Not spoken with the man who made Absence in a while, but at one point I know I was roped into doing music for the sequel!





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    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:23 pm

    Moving right on, time for 2007, no more specific opinion requests as promised Smile but I'll continue to state mine:

    Dec 2007: Escape from Castle Holle - Some of these maps I didn't like as much as others but it's very good work from Dean with almost all good and some excellent levels. A few questionable music choices; secret levels are sometimes a bit easy to find IMO; but (very) good all round mod.

    Oct 2007: Trilogy Revisited + Nocturnal Missions - Serpens really picked up his skill fast when he joined the community, this being his debut set. It's another one of those sets with lots of good levels for those who like the original game; I'd venture to say serpens is to 2007 as Ipank is to 2011, but I've actually played this set unlike Ipank's 2011 set (so far). The first couple episodes are the weakest but all the episodes are pretty nice and the early weakness would be to be expected considering it's a first release. I recall really liking the way the secret exits were hidden in E3L7 and E6L3.

    Sept 2007: The Final Fight - I can appreciate and see the effort that went here, but Creator maps just don't appetize me to play. Even modified. And yes, I know I committed that very sin when I was young myself. Maybe I'll look at it when I'm bored some day. Also Sep 2007: Guns and Glory (yes, the first one!) - The first level or maybe two looked like this wasn't much of a serious effort but I had a lot of fun after that; a solid overall conversion. And yes, there was a third Sep 2007 award: Quest for the General - I must reckon that this is the one, and only, set released under the name of Thomas that I never touched and very well may never touch. It's not that the levels are bad, it's more than I've already played like 80% of them from some other Thomas release.

    Aug 2007: IRONY - This is a Bucksnort set (Lakota Bucksnort), and I have the standard Bucksnort opinion - not bad, but didn't really entice me. Also Aug 2007: Northern Darkness - It looks like a lot of effort was put into making this a conversion (and this seems to win a lot of stuff awards alone) but it's too tough and just doesn't play well IMO.

    June 2007: Macenstein Second Encounter - It's a solid faithful recreation of the Mac game. Nothing new though.

    May 2007: Operation Winterstrum - It looked impressive, but ran rather slow for me at any setting I tried in DosBOX unfortunately. Also May 2007: Operation Weltmeisterung by Mario Maniac - I don't think I've ever played or looked at this one so it would be unfair for me to comment on.

    Apr 2007: Hitler's Ark - A mod that could have been very good that is spoiled by a typical and extremely fatal problem of this author (Michael Collins): He uses four keys, and constantly makes sure that whenever you pick a key up, you can bet you will have to run the ENTIRE length of the map to find the locked door it opens. It wouldn't even be that bad with just two keys, but with four - having to run across the whole level with NOTHING to kill four times (and they are quite big levels at that) takes away the fun because I'm only actually playing half the time if that.

    Mar 2007: Doom Legions of Hell - I could not get this to run even remotely acceptably in DosBOX, so unfortunately I cannot give an opinion of it. Also Mar 2007: Nazis With Attitude - Another Michael Collins set, and it has exactly the same design problem as Hitler's Ark. It actually depresses me to see so many great maps spoiled by this massive design flaw, even more so when I realize how obvious it is that the author chose to design things this way intentionally. This, Thomas, makes any flaw I've ever aired against your maps seem like almost nothing in comparison. Really, of all seriously designed maps, this has to be the worst design decision ever conceived.

    Feb 2007: Spear Revisited - I always liked Executor's maps in general, and this was pretty enjoyable too even though it took me a little while to run it. Not as good as Sextilogy SDL (at least the third episode of that), but still a set I played practically all in one afternoon and it kept my interest the whole way through. Also Feb 2007: Castle Assault - Another really good set by Thomas, even if there are occasional maps that are reuses of older maps or were reused thereafter. If I recall, this one was a fun play right from start to finish.

    Overall 2007 obviously saw a ton of releases though many marred ones, as my opinions suggest. But there are at least five or so really solid ones, maybe more. Guns and Glory is the best of the ones (that I liked) in terms of originality/creativity, at least once it gets on its feet. There were two unawarded releases/series from 2007 that I feel deserve due recognition as well:

    First is the first, much older Wolf3D Community Map Pack (and it is in SDL now too). While Tricob did a lot of the levels in this set (all of two episodes) and I'm honestly not a big fan of his designs, and pretty much all the Thomas' stuff in here was used on one of his own sets (from that timeframe, I'm not talking Odds and Ends here), I absolutely LOVED Dean's Episode 3, and his couple contributions to Episode 6 - and these maps alone made the whole thing very worthwhile for me. Schabbs had one or two really sweet contributions in Episode 6 as well, that I played as I was working to get to Dean's map(s) before aborting on Level 4 since everything thereafter (in Episode 6) is by Tricob.

    Second is the Map of the Month club sets. These had some really cool stuff in them and honestly, they really should have gotten at least one collective award IMO.

    Oh, and I do know there is one awarded release I didn't cover yet...LXIX has to do with why...

    I surely have not forgotten! Very Happy

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by lilmanjs on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:35 pm

    You don't have to play Final Fight if you don't want to, but the entire mod is not creator levels that have been edited. Episode 1 is entirely new levels done by me and the boss level on episode 6 is also an original level by ack. as for the other stuff, I played most of it but forgot about them save for Dean's mod. that is a great mod and I love to play it every once in a while still. A hard mod, but still a fun one.





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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:29 pm

    Dean's mod = Escape from Castle Holle, or Episode 3 of the community set?

    Oh make sure not to miss the last two sentences of my initial post on 2007..remember what I said about one level from this year....hint hint hint

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:27 am

    I never really played Escape from Castle Holle. I think Dean had good mapping potential though, but the only mod of his I've played fully through, and I enjoyed this, was Hitlerworld. His first?

    Michael Collin (that's right, without the S)! There's a guy I'd love to see back in the community. Truly fun mods, and even though they're meant as a joke and don't have a serious WW2 plot, some of the maps seem very considered and thought through. Hitler's Ark is pick 1 from me for this year.

    Pick 2 would have to be Spear Revisited. I remember having a ball when I played that, and I hadn't played Wolf games for a long time when I did that. Found an inaccessible treasure bug on level 17 though. But that's all right.

    Operation Wintersturm, though I've never played it, could very well be pick 3. WLHack - holy shit, the progress and the ideas in that guy.

    @WolfForever wrote:Quest for the General - I must reckon that this is the one, and only, set released under the name of Thomas that I never touched and very well may never touch. It's not that the levels are bad, it's more than I've already played like 80% of them from some other Thomas release.
    My memory's a little hazy on that one. Did I re-use maps from Castle Assault or do CA and QFG use different maps? I know I took some from a community map set and put in there, and in my book that's all right, 'cause I don't see anything wrong in using maps you've only contributed to community in your own sets.

    What happened to January 2007? Ghost Betrayal was a nice little mod. Otherwise, a very useless month indeed! pig

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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by ronwolf1705 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:04 am

    WLHack - holy shit, the progress and the ideas in that guy.

    And the ability to actually pull those ideas off!




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    Re: Dome awards - Were they deserved? + Applicable mapset/mod thoughts

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:57 pm

    Wlhack seems to hav vanished.



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