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    Stopandthink_stein Released

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    Schabbs
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    Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by Schabbs on Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:06 am

    Stopandthink_stein Released

    Brian Kory has released a 19 level set called 'Stopandthink_stein'. As the title suggests, this is not a basic shoot 'em up mod, but a series of puzzles and it requires a lot of thought to complete each level. It uses John Bucksnort's Istanbul mod as a base and most of the graphics from that are retained. A hint file is included. Available here.



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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by Dean on Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:21 am

    Be careful if you are playing the first level as it is possible to get trapped in the gold key room.

    You need to open a couple of fairly obvious secrets to get to the key but it is possible to go around the back of the newly opened secret door and send it back where it came from trapping you in the room with no other way out.



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    briancough
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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by briancough on Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:23 am

    I suggest highly that you always have a back up save of every level at the beginning of it. The game works best on hardest.

    Here is the game fixed, level 6 is fixed

    https://www.yousendit.com/download/TTdFc2ZBcG8wVW5IRGc9PQ


    If anyone gets stuck just ask. I made this game in 2-3 days and I never stopped and thought about any of it. I do know though that you can get screwed many a ways. That is not so much a flaw , just an imprefection, one of many. Most the time it can all be made to work , but be careful when, where you save. Always keep a save at the beginning of the map .

    The trick to most the maps is that IT CAN WORK. Not that it should or that it will work. You have to carefully plan and suck up alot for these maps . IT starts easier, but towards the end you will be challanging AI to do things that they do not normally do , open doors for you and follow you throughout maps etc etc.

    Always have a back up save. Never think any solution is far fetched, if the solution saves you the most hp , and ammo then it is the right one.

    If anyone gets stuck just ask. This game ...works...but it was not designed in a 2 +2 = 4 matter. You will need to be creative on some of these maps.

    The major thing planed here was to screw you if you are not careful, also to make YOU make the solution, there are peramators though.

    MAny levels have specific designs that are not possible on first tries.

    Using ILM to get by is not at any time the thought for solution, ILM is still cheating in this game.

    LEVEL 6 is not working as it should, it fails. It is supposed to be very different. The game plays differently on different skill levels.

    I thought I got everything in testing, but I did not , level 6 is ruined . I need to revise it in a later release. (revised and edited)

    Schabbs
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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by Schabbs on Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:34 pm

    I just replaced the earlier rar file I posted with one that has level 6 fixed.

    Available here.



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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by briancough on Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:41 pm

    @Schabbs wrote:I just replaced the earlier rar file I posted with one that has level 6 fixed.

    Available here.

    God bless you for putting up with me. This concept could be done to amazing extents. After playing a few levels of the doom mod, I hope that one day I or someone else can actually program maps like this, rather than use programming already there to try to make them work..

    The challenge of mapping this was not being smart, it was being creative. I had to use AI and programming that was not meant for these puzzels and make them meant for it. Beta testing 18 levels repeatively. It was a pain in the ***, which is why the game has some less than fantastic maps at the end.

    Nexion
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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by Nexion on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:39 am

    I played the mod until level 4. I killed the officer, which should open the next door. The officer stood next to the start point so I shot him before I saved the game. I also got stuck at the beginning of level 3. Another guard which should open a 
    locked door. The level design is a bit careless. You can get trapped very easy and
    some places are overcrowded with enemies. Some rooms have a lot objects 
    whereas others don't have objects at all. Nevertheless I like the idea of the mod.

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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by briancough on Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:23 am

    @Nexion wrote:I played the mod until level 4. I killed the officer, which should open the next door. The officer stood next to the start point so I shot him before I saved the game. I also got stuck at the beginning of level 3. Another guard which should open a
    locked door. The level design is a bit careless. You can get trapped very easy and
    some places are overcrowded with enemies. Some rooms have a lot objects
    whereas others don't have objects at all. Nevertheless I like the idea of the mod.

    You made it past level 3, you are beat the game material I think.

    Level 4,

    You kill the first officer immeditately in front of you, that simply wakes up the one next to you. You make the officer on the other side follow you until the door ....you let him open the door, and you run to the loop with an orb in it near by, you time it for a few seconds let him follow you in there then you run back to the locked door now open.

    NOW you must have him follow you back into that locked door on the other side, where you are standing so he will be tracing back his steps from his previous run . It's like having a key chase you around a level on new ground. Then you must get to the second set of followings. And block yourself into the right side of the pillars, and have him follow you on the left until the end .



    Oh its not so much careless, its very well planned, you do the wrong thing, and you do the wrong thing. The overcrowded is very planned as well that is there for blockage, instant death, or a warning. OR indictator that it is NOT the way . That you must do a puzzle.

    Its meant to be hard, there is a proper solution for ALL things in the game. You are doing good. Level 3 is a hard level. I am glad that you figured it out. Level 4 is a good one,and teaching you something you will need to know for a later level. In fact the very next level lol.

    I hope that you give it another chance, every map is possible. If you need extra extra help look at it in map editor it may reveal the way . That is cheating though.

    Most over active areas

    Force you to think

    Force you to create

    Force you to evade

    All over active areas have a point, most are meant to be avoided.

    The next level you are meant to waste your ammo, and health at the beginning so don't think that is careless or there is a way around it. Very Happy

    You assume its careless, but it is very well planned and every level works on programming already there . Its using it to your advantage, but not simply using programming to complete a level. Its a creative process , and yes you can get screwed.

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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by Nexion on Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:18 pm

    The general level design is might be well planned. But a small room filled with ceiling lamps or a room filled with enemies so that the game hits the visible object limit and things start to disappear. I think that's a bit careless. Level 6 is nice though it needs a lot trials to figure out the right pushwall combination. I'm on Level 7. Haven't beaten it yet. I don't save a lot so I wish I had a suicide key.....

    briancough
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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by briancough on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:34 pm

    @Nexion wrote:The general level design is might be well planned. But a small room filled with ceiling lamps or a room filled with enemies so that the game hits the visible object limit and things start to disappear. I think that's a bit careless. Level 6 is nice though it needs a lot trials to figure out the right pushwall combination. I'm on Level 7. Haven't beaten it yet. I don't save a lot so I wish I had a suicide key.....

    Fair enough man,the only way i know how to make instant death , or obstacles is by pushing the game to do things. I totally agree with you that the game is pushing it to its limits at times. It nearly crashes often, you just do not always see it Very Happy A bit of trivia of this, for the last 10 maps I could not even use doors, one door added to the game crashed it... Shocked

    6 Does have a logical order to the walls though, I am assuming that you figured it out.

    7 Is a no detecion map, you do not want to be detected.


    I agree, this could have been done better. I am glad that you have made it so far. Very Happy

    I am thrilled that you made it so far,and it makes me feel great knowing some one plays this thing...but I might let you down on the last maps. I got lazy, I am a newb mapper as I do not want to admitt , ahah. I did not want to make 18 levels originally but I got stuck doing it because end game triggers took more work than I was willing or knew how to work.

    I hope you enjoy it, there is always a sequel or future inspired modders to do it better. Laughing I would love to play someone elses take of this, esp a real modder.

    briancough
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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by briancough on Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:11 pm

    Anyone finish it?

    Schabbs
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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by Schabbs on Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:22 pm

    I'm up to level 6. Some levels have hell of a lot of objects but they look quite effective most of the time. Level 2 took me a long time to work out. Reminds me in part of an idea in the original 4th Wolf3D episode boss level but your level is a lot more complex. Some levels (level 3 I think is one) rely a lot on luck. Kill a guard that's supposed to open a locked door and you have to start the level again.

    A lot of good ideas in there though. More comments when I hopefully finish more levels.



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    Re: Stopandthink_stein Released

    Post by briancough on Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 pm

    Well, yes, it is my first real mod . LOL PLay it if you want to but I think it pisses some people off. I hope to do better with my next mod.

    This mod was about abusing AI

    My next mod rapes Graphics. Very Happy

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