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    Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

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    RSImage
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    Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by RSImage on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:07 pm

    Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. I used to mod/play Wolfenstein back in the early/mid-2000s, and ended up releasing half of a "TC" (is it still called that?) called Projekt Vertilgung, with James Ingham.

    I recently had the opportunity to play The New Order (which is surprisingly cool, if you get a chance to play it) and it gave me some ideas for Wolf mod, or at least made me want to play the original game some.

    I've seen a few of the in-browser Wolf3D ports, and those are pretty cool, but I really would like to know if there are any good Windows ports, with high resolution abilities possibly, that are also mod-friendly... in other words, what do Wolfers nowadays play and mod on commonly?

    In my day it was FloEdit, almost exclusively. I've been snooping around (and will continue) and have seen some stuff about ChaosEdit and "SDL" but it's all fragmentary and/or outdated. If anyone could give me the lowdown or point me in the right direction I would be very grateful.

    Thanks everyone, take care.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Thomas on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:31 pm

    I loved Projekt Vertilgung, and wandered around level 20 for ages as I had no idea it was unfinished... It was a gem, that one... I also know you started up something called "If" which looked quite superb as well...

    Currently, I suppose most people use SDL and an editor named WDC. I'm not the one to give advice as I still use MapEdit (lol) but a lot of people here are talented and really know what's happening code-, graphic- and gameplay-wise.

    I also remember you swung by the DieHard Wolfers' forum sometime in 2006 and didn't come back. A lot has happened since then - primary cues would probably be mods like Eisenfaust Origins, Totenkopf SDL, Absence and most recently Leiche Soldat by veteran Gary Ragland which uses 128x128 maps.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:11 pm

    You should finish Project Vertilgung. I completed the 8 directional Flamethrower SS sprites a few years ago for you. No longer there is a mix of the regular blue uniformed SS with the Flamethrower SS.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:25 pm

    Nowadays most people play SDL and a lot of people only want to play SDL. It's not gimmicky at all.



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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by RSImage on Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:34 pm

    @Thomas wrote:I also know you started up something called "If" which looked quite superb as well...
    Oh yeah? I genuinely don't remember anything about that -- ha, now I'm curious. And I appreciate the compliment, yeah I shouldn't have left it unfinished like that. And thanks for telling me what's new as far as big projects, yeah I'll want to check those out.

    @WolferCooker wrote:You should finish Project Vertilgung. I completed the 8 directional Flamethrower SS sprites a few years ago for you. No longer there is a mix of the regular blue uniformed SS with the Flamethrower SS.
    Ah that was you! Good job, wow. Yeah I think I avoided that out of sheer laziness, haha. I think I should finish it then. But I really want to explore this idea I have now, first. I think it won't take much work though.

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:Nowadays most people play SDL and a lot of people only want to play SDL. It's not gimmicky at all.
    Thank you sir. Do you happen to know where I can download it with some clear instructions? I'm finding it surprisingly difficult to search for. Did something ever replace the Wolf3D Dome as the main Wolf page? I notice it seems somewhat abandoned. Also read something about Mr. Lowe (Schabbs) having medical troble? =(

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:55 pm

    @RSImage wrote:I think I should finish it then. But I really want to explore this idea I have now, first. I think it won't take much work though.

    That's fine. Explore and take your time. Are you going to start from scratch again on Vertilgung or planning on converting the existing DOS mod to SDL and then finish it from there?

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:00 pm

    @RSImage wrote:
    @Thomas wrote:I also know you started up something called "If" which looked quite superb as well...
    Oh yeah? I genuinely don't remember anything about that -- ha, now I'm curious. And I appreciate the compliment, yeah I shouldn't have left it unfinished like that. And thanks for telling me what's new as far as big projects, yeah I'll want to check those out.

    @WolferCooker wrote:You should finish Project Vertilgung. I completed the 8 directional Flamethrower SS sprites a few years ago for you. No longer there is a mix of the regular blue uniformed SS with the Flamethrower SS.
    Ah that was you! Good job, wow. Yeah I think I avoided that out of sheer laziness, haha. I think I should finish it then. But I really want to explore this idea I have now, first. I think it won't take much work though.

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:Nowadays most people play SDL and a lot of people only want to play SDL. It's not gimmicky at all.
    Thank you sir. Do you happen to know where I can download it with some clear instructions? I'm finding it surprisingly difficult to search for. Did something ever replace the Wolf3D Dome as the main Wolf page? I notice it seems somewhat abandoned. Also read something about Mr. Lowe (Schabbs) having medical troble? =(
    Yes, Brian is having medical issues. It's unfortunate but it comes with old age.

    Many computers cannot run Wolf3d on DOS anymore natively. Windows XP was the divide; some could and some could not play it. Past that it's SDL all the way. It's still possible to play Dos Wolf3d but that requires Dosbox and for many mods, the singlethreaded nature of Dosbox leads to performance issues. Performance PCs of today can push past it no problem but many people do not have that luxury and they're stuck with old laptops.

    The problem with obtaining a nice working block of SDL goodness is that it was primarily hosted by the Chaos Edit website which died. A recent member posted a link that works:
    http://homepage.o2mail.de/mkroll/

    Today I visited it and Chrome is flagging it as having malware. I'm unsure if this is a false positive.

    SDL also allows for some coding changes which were not possible with Dos. For a mapper like me who doesn't do mods, I am able to use as many static objects, guards, etc as I like and no invisible objects if too many objects are displayed. A recent mod even has extra-large levels, above what is normally permitted.

    Wlhack made a guide here:
    http://wolf3d.darkbb.com/t1521-compiling-sdl-source-with-dev-c



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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:05 pm

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:A recent mod even has extra-large levels, above what is normally permitted.


    Use that to your advantage RSImage. There will be a few more mods out there in the future with map sizes of 128 X 128. I heard you can make maps as large as 256 X 256.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:10 pm

    Gotta be careful with the levels though. If I have to backtrack around a 256 x 256 level to open up locked doors I will probably stop playing. Also imagine if a section of the map only leads to a locked door. If I don't have the key, I have to backtrack. Larger map sizes allows for more freedom but there are more ways to screw it up.



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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by RSImage on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:09 pm

    @WolferCooker wrote:That's fine. Explore and take your time. Are you going to start from scratch again on Vertilgung or planning on converting the existing DOS mod to SDL and then finish it from there?
    You know what? That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out. My first inclination would be to start from scratch and call part II a completely new episode. Did we do PV on the SoD engine, one long episode? It's been so long..

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:The problem with obtaining a nice working block of SDL goodness is that it was primarily hosted by the Chaos Edit website which died.
    I really appreciate that info. Yeah weird about chrome; I honestly don't even know how to bypass that, so just opened it in IE. What happened to Chaos Software? Just stopped updating?

    These forums are really cool. It's actually been a long time since I talked with anyone on this style of forums (I'm a big fan of reddit honestly.. and the wolf3d sub there could use some love) and I realized I really miss it.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:29 pm

    @RSImage wrote:
    @WolferCooker wrote:That's fine. Explore and take your time. Are you going to start from scratch again on Vertilgung or planning on converting the existing DOS mod to SDL and then finish it from there?
    You know what? That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out. My first inclination would be to start from scratch and call part II a completely new episode. Did we do PV on the SoD engine, one long episode? It's been so long..

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:The problem with obtaining a nice working block of SDL goodness is that it was primarily hosted by the Chaos Edit website which died.
    I really appreciate that info. Yeah weird about chrome; I honestly don't even know how to bypass that, so just opened it in IE. What happened to Chaos Software? Just stopped updating?

    These forums are really cool. It's actually been a long time since I talked with anyone on this style of forums (I'm a big fan of reddit honestly.. and the wolf3d sub there could use some love) and I realized I really miss it.
    Chaos edit project has been dead for many years now. It's still the editor I primarily use. Although the 2 main features of WDC I like are 1) Error checker function. It will check for wrong floor codes, and it's very easy to miss floor codes when there is a sea of colored dots everywhere. it also checks for weirdness like objects inside of a wall. 2) The ability to edit larger than normal levels (given some tweaking). WDC is a bit hard to use though.

    I bypassed the Chrome alert by clicking their 'advanced' button.

    What do you mean by this style of forums?



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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by RSImage on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:42 pm

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:Chaos edit project has been dead for many years now. It's still the editor I primarily use. Although the 2 main features of WDC I like are 1) Error checker function. It will check for wrong floor codes, and it's very easy to miss floor codes when there is a sea of colored dots everywhere. it also checks for weirdness like objects inside of a wall. 2) The ability to edit larger than normal levels (given some tweaking). WDC is a bit hard to use though.

    I bypassed the Chrome alert by clicking their 'advanced' button.

    What do you mean by this style of forums?
    It's what I'd call like a full-featured style, with avatars, in-depth profiles, a nearly full-fledged word processor in the text entry box. Reddit (and surely many clones -- hell, reddit may be a clone for all I know) has a style that is super-minimal. The difference in feeling between the two (at least to me) is one is like a cozy, luxurious lounge, the other like a slightly chaotic, noisy nightclub.

    Haha, the worst metaphor ever.

    So Chaos Edit and WDC, right, that's awesome ok, that's where I'll begin. I just installed SDL and I like it a lot already. I read in the read-me something about the source code already being prepped for floor/ceiling textures and other features. Exciting!

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:00 pm

    Well Zach (The Dome still has your mod with your name on it), you should refresh your memory with PV by playing it again.

    It IS one long episode, but you guys stopped after 20 levels. If I were you, I'd start from scratch again but use your original as a guide along with additions/subtractions of what you want.

    I'd really like to be a part of your team with this, but I'm not a coder (though I did try already) nor I have much time after the end of August.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:44 pm

    @RSImage wrote:
    @Dark_wizzie wrote:Chaos edit project has been dead for many years now. It's still the editor I primarily use. Although the 2 main features of WDC I like are 1) Error checker function. It will check for wrong floor codes, and it's very easy to miss floor codes when there is a sea of colored dots everywhere. it also checks for weirdness like objects inside of a wall. 2) The ability to edit larger than normal levels (given some tweaking). WDC is a bit hard to use though.

    I bypassed the Chrome alert by clicking their 'advanced' button.

    What do you mean by this style of forums?
    It's what I'd call like a full-featured style, with avatars, in-depth profiles, a nearly full-fledged word processor in the text entry box. Reddit (and surely many clones -- hell, reddit may be a clone for all I know) has a style that is super-minimal. The difference in feeling between the two (at least to me) is one is like a cozy, luxurious lounge, the other like a slightly chaotic, noisy nightclub.

    Haha, the worst metaphor ever.

    So Chaos Edit and WDC, right, that's awesome ok, that's where I'll begin. I just installed SDL and I like it a lot already. I read in the read-me something about the source code already being prepped for floor/ceiling textures and other features. Exciting!
    That's the first time my forum has ever been likened to a luxurious lounge.Shocked



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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Thomas on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:56 am

    Yes, back in 2003/04/05, the DHW was very much like a noisy nightclub... Well, I wouldn't say nightclub, as douches were few, music was gone and chicks were nil. But I'll tell ya this... It was more like a gentleman's club, you had to work real hard to make a name for yourself, especially if your English skills were crap and your mods likewise.

    Zach didn't have this problem, but I do remember him getting into a little trouble here and there with BT - who didn't?

    Chaos Software has been moved to another website:

    http://homepage.o2mail.de/mkroll/

    Again, if nothing works I can send ChaosEdit v1.27 to you via e-mail or whatever. I still use it for graphic editing and replacement. I did this with FloEdit for you back in 2006, you know, lol.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 am

    @Thomas wrote:Yes, back in 2003/04/05, the DHW was very much like a noisy nightclub... Well, I wouldn't say nightclub, as douches were few, music was gone and chicks were nil. But I'll tell ya this... It was more like a gentleman's club, you had to work real hard to make a name for yourself, especially if your English skills were crap and your mods likewise.

    Zach didn't have this problem, but I do remember him getting into a little trouble here and there with BT - who didn't?

    Chaos Software has been moved to another website:

    http://homepage.o2mail.de/mkroll/

    Again, if nothing works I can send ChaosEdit v1.27 to you via e-mail or whatever. I still use it for graphic editing and replacement. I did this with FloEdit for you back in 2006, you know, lol.
    I bet Brian never got in trouble with BT!cat



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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by Thomas on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:46 am

    It's different with Brian. To me he's always had the upper hand. He's the godfather of Wolf modding. He was also much more pacifistic in his line of thought - again, I would've probably acted like BT if I was in his shoes - it is his forum after all. No doubt about it.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by RSImage on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:53 pm

    @WolferCooker wrote:Well Zach (The Dome still has your mod with your name on it), you should refresh your memory with PV by playing it again.

    It IS one long episode, but you guys stopped after 20 levels. If I were you, I'd start from scratch again but use your original as a guide along with additions/subtractions of what you want.

    I'd really like to be a part of your team with this, but I'm not a coder (though I did try already) nor I have much time after the end of August.
    You've been inboxed sir!

    @Thomas wrote:Again, if nothing works I can send ChaosEdit v1.27 to you via e-mail or whatever. I still use it for graphic editing and replacement. I did this with FloEdit for you back in 2006, you know, lol.
    I remember! I was going to take you up on your offer as I couldn't get the link to work yesterday, but I got it now. There's a noticeable lack of documentation however, which makes sense being a Pre-Release edition.

    Has anyone looked into this ECWolf port? I messed with it some and it looks excellent honestly. And apparently it's well-supported and currently updated. Unfortunately I have literally no idea how to begin with code compilation and everything.. so I have to figure that out.

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    Re: Wolf 3D 2014 modding/playing

    Post by WolferCooker on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:52 pm

    If you're interested in ECWolf, talk to Blzut3. The only thing I don't like about ECWolf though is that it is not as simple to open the .exe and the mod supporting it.

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