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    The False Spear SDL

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    tsalop
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    The False Spear SDL

    Post by tsalop on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:10 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    Hello everyone, WLHack here... It has been a really long time since I last posted here.
    Anyway, let's get straight to the business.

    After years of idling, I have started to work on Wolf3D mods on again and my goal
    is to finally release ToS. But before that I will remake False Spear in SDL...

    Here is what I have planned to do:

    - Add new levels and fix the old ones:
    Let's face it... The last levels of TFS were extremely bad (especially the final boss) so
    I am going to alter the existing levels a bit.

    - Add more walls, doors and items:
    The problem with the DOS version was memory limitations. Because of that, there were not much
    variation between scenery (I bet you can count all different wall types, excluding the wall decoration,
    without even using all of your fingers). Also doors only had three different textures (compare to the ToS SDL-demo).

    - Add some more guards (and maybe minibosses):
    Nice little thing that gives the game more atmosphere...

    - Replace the projectile shooting mutants with regular ones:
    The rocket mutants didn't work that well, because most of the time they killed themselves due the splash damage.
    So I decided that I am going with mutants more similar to the original ones (behavioral changes though)...

    - Update the graphics:
    TFS was a mess of "realistic" graphics and cartoony ones, so I have decided to update them a bit (and
    recycle ToS ones). Also I will be using ToS-palette as I think it has the perfect colors for this mod.

    - Explore the themes more:
    Okay. We had the mines, dungeons, abandoned research facility etc... But due the 21 level limit each
    different theme only had about 1-3 levels. This time I am going to add more than 21 levels and maybe add alternative routes.
    In case of alternative routes I will remove total-playtime from the end of the game.

    - Change the music to midi and replace the original Wolf3D sounds...

    And much more...

    -----------------------------------------------
    Download:
    The False Spear SDL
    Map-patch


    Last edited by tsalop on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:27 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:Is that red diamond floor code now the deaf guard?
    If you open the maps without the correct definitions, floor codes are wrong...
    @WolfForever wrote:
    Also, BTW, how much in the way of gameplay changes were made to original TFS maps? What levels are largely left intact from the original, which are heavily modified, and which are brand new?
    Mostly the outdoor and Sturmgard levels were completely changed.
    Also the boss/secret levels changed a bit.

    @WolfForever wrote:
    Finally - tables/static objects shouldn't obstruct guard views, as far as I know.
    Yeah. Also I tried placing another guard to a similar place and bug didn't occur - so I am
    still trying to figure out what is going on.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    First Boss was a bit too easy,
    Yep, that is expected as the level is nearly identical to the original...
    All other boss-levels were changed so they would give player more challenge..

    @doomjedi wrote:
    As I said - reloading animation is still too unnoticable, some other previous art remarks of mine we're not taken as well.
    Yeah... I decided that I would change the reloading animation for the TOS.
    Also, I did make most of the things darker and I edited both the vines and the gold bars...

    You did give me good pointers but seems like I didn't get it right.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolferCooker on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:29 pm

    I found a major bug WLHack. In a room in level 6 where you destroy the 2 explosive barrels to get the gold key, the game just crashes and there's no way around it (unless you remove the barrels in the map of course)

    I would assume this bug holds true on levels where groups of explosive barrels explode simultaneously.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolfForever on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:46 pm

    If you don't think you got it right just change it up a bit. The art related stuff all sounds like minor quibbles where a few last-minute edits included in another patch could make a lot of difference.

    Bugs are a primary concern, though. I'd say keep rolling out the updates to fix both the big and small stuff is the way to go. I think it's still possible to get this at least pretty close to just right. Smile

    And as for my own questions, about the editing, I just want to know, on average how much do the levels differ from the original - were most edited at least a little or most left very much intact?

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolfForever on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:57 pm

    Okay, I got a response regarding the cmd prompt issue that one of my YT friends had discovered:

    "I had created a shortcut and in the target field, I used the parameter, 'res' and attempted to set the resolution to 1280x800. I believe my computer does support this resolution and it usually works just fine for other SDL mods. It might have just been the specific resolution, but I also attempted using 960x600 as well and experienced the same crash. I'm sure it's just a minor thing, but that's the only problem I encountered."


    Hope this helps, and like I said in previous post, I think once all the bugs are sorted out, I don't see how more than a little tinkering would be needed to get the rest right. Smile

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:39 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:"I had created a shortcut and in the target field, I used the parameter, 'res' and attempted to set the resolution to 1280x800. I believe my computer does support this resolution and it usually works just fine for other SDL mods. It might have just been the specific resolution, but I also attempted using 960x600 as well and experienced the same crash. I'm sure it's just a minor thing, but that's the only problem I encountered."
    Okay... This bug seems to be caused by the modern statusbar. Playing with classic statusbar the
    game works with following resolutions.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:57 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:And as for my own questions, about the editing, I just want to know, on average how much do the levels differ from the original - were most edited at least a little or most left very much intact?
    Okay... Till the 2nd Grauwald level, every level is mostly un-edited.
    After that level (decluding the "passage") most of the levels are completely new... There might
    be a room or two that has been left intact but otherwise they're completely different.

    @WolferCooker wrote:I found a major bug WLHack. In a room in level 6 where you destroy the 2 explosive barrels to get the gold key, the game just crashes and there's no way around it (unless you remove the barrels in the map of course)

    I would assume this bug holds true on levels where groups of explosive barrels explode simultaneously.
    Okay... I think I found out the reason for this bug (it doesn't happen if the barrel is succefully
    destroyed by one shot). I will make a patch with the screenfix.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:05 am

    This barrel bug seems quite interesting...
    1. It only seems to occur in level 6. I tried to copy-paste the room to other levels and I was
    not able to replicate the bug.

    2. This bug seems to have nothing to do with the object limits... Adjusting them and even removing
    poison puddles from spawning doesn't help.

    3. There seems to be no clear conditions for this bug... Sometimes it occurs when only one
    barrel explodes and sometimes when both of them explode simultaneously. Most of the time
    however both of the barrels blow up without the game crashing (4 times out of 30 in my test).

    4. This problem seems to happen with other exploding barrel in that level as well..

    Because of the nature of this bug, after I get home I will make a map patch that works
    as a temporal solution. Later this week I will post a patch that work as a permanent solution.




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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:39 am

    why not replace one of the explodable barrels with a regular one?

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:40 am

    also, the rifle is a bit on the weak side. It's actually weaker than the pistols.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:23 pm

    @WolferCooker wrote:also, the rifle is a bit on the weak side. It's actually weaker than the pistols.
    Actually it is part of the game mechanics... Rifle is quite useless for targets that are near (closer than 3 tiles) but really effective against targets that are really far.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolferCooker on Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:13 pm

    I always keep getting 95% treasure ratio on level 13. I am unable to locate the last treasure item in game and on Chaosedit.

    I would think one of the treasures was either misplaced or added by accident where you can't reach it.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:59 pm

    @WolferCooker wrote:I always keep getting 95% treasure ratio on level 13. I am unable to locate the last treasure item in game and on Chaosedit.

    I would think one of the treasures was either misplaced or added by accident where you can't reach it.
    Here is the map-patch that temporarily fixes the barrels. It also fixes the missing treasure bug.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolfForever on Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:05 am

    Maybe modify the artworks slightly for the next permanent patch, wherever doomjedi was referring to & you feel appropriate. Bugs still primary concern though.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolfForever on Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:08 am

    @WLHack wrote:
    @WolfForever wrote:And as for my own questions, about the editing, I just want to know, on average how much do the levels differ from the original - were most edited at least a little or most left very much intact?
    Okay... Till the 2nd Grauwald level, every level is mostly un-edited.
    After that level (decluding the "passage") most of the levels are completely new... There might
    be a room or two that has been left intact but otherwise they're completely different.
    I only see one Grawald level (Floor 9).

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by Ocram on Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:19 am

    Hey, i heard that you were adding a new debug menu (debug codes - tab + [key]) . Can i know how to get to it? (I wanna see how it works and i suck butt even at the baby skill) Smile

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:34 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:
    I only see one Grawald level (Floor 9).
    First level is also Grauwald... Anyway levels after the 9th are mostly changed.

    @Ocram wrote:Hey, i heard that you were adding a new debug menu (debug codes - tab + [key]) . Can i know how to get to it? (I wanna see how it works and i suck butt even at the baby skill) Smile
    I will reveal it later with the map definitions.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by Ocram on Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:44 am

    Never mind, found the combination (pretty clever, WLHack...), and was wondering why does god mode last only for 30 seconds? Isn't there a way to activate perma-god mode? Also, you made a VERY GOOD JOB on this mod. Just sayin'

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:02 am

    @Ocram wrote:Never mind, found the combination (pretty clever, WLHack...), and was wondering why does god mode last only for 30 seconds? Isn't there a way to activate perma-god mode? Also, you made a VERY GOOD JOB on this mod. Just sayin'
    There is no permanent God-mode, but I will make the cheat one last forever in the patch that fixes resolution/barrel problem.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:42 am

    I saw an interesting easter egg when I left the game alone for a while.
    Can't find the key on the first boss level. Sad



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:53 am

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:I saw an interesting easter egg when I left the game alone for a while.
    Can't find the key on the first boss level. Sad
    Silver key can be found from one of the medical storages, rusty key you get from the boss.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolferCooker on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:31 am

    I've beaten it twice already and it never fails to disappoint. However, there is a problem when picking up the Panzerfaust. Apparently you can hold one and yet still pick up the others.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:18 pm

    @WolferCooker and others - Is this mod worth playing in its current form, from your experience so far with it (and how far have you made it)?

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:28 pm

    @WolferCooker wrote:I've beaten it twice already and it never fails to disappoint. However, there is a problem when picking up the Panzerfaust. Apparently you can hold one and yet still pick up the others.
    Okay... That is something that needs to be fixed as soon as possible..
    Currently I have fewer so I am not able to make it right away.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:19 pm

    Very nice mod so far, very challenging, very wolfish. Textures are simply fantastic, scenery is a bit less so. I'm sure for example WLHack could make better animated torches. I have some problem with perspective of some scenery, some are also too narrow.
    But all fit together quite well.
    Maps are great.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:02 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:Very nice mod so far, very challenging, very wolfish. Textures are simply fantastic, scenery is a bit less so. I'm sure for example WLHack could make better animated torches. I have some problem with perspective of some scenery, some are also too narrow.
    But all fit together quite well.
    Maps are great.
    Recommend it overall?

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by lilmanjs on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:19 pm

    @WolfForever wrote:Recommend it overall?
    It is a mod from WLHack! If you don't play it, you are missing out on a mod that would surely win a dome award. I think the orignal version did. In its current form it is still very much worth playing, and I'm sure the patch(es) will make it an even better experience.





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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:15 am

    @WolfForever wrote:
    @doomjedi wrote:Very nice mod so far, very challenging, very wolfish. Textures are simply fantastic, scenery is a bit less so. I'm sure for example WLHack could make better animated torches. I have some problem with perspective of some scenery, some are also too narrow.
    But all fit together quite well.
    Maps are great.
    Recommend it overall?
    More than recommend, obviously. Just some nitpicks of a Spriter Smile

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:26 am

    WLHack - you know that I not only respect you as a Spriter - I'm much more than that - see you as role model to aspire at.
    You are better with textures (I'm crappy/lazy with textures (taking them mostly from other games), and so can only envy) than with scenery, but even with scenery you're fantastic....can't forget that tank sprite you've made...etc.

    But some (only some!) of the scenery used in this mod is pretty crappy - sure to your standards. Caged skeleton for example....just ask me - I can make a much better one for you with no extra credit. I fully respect the fact that you wanted to recreate all the wolf3dish art from scratch, to have a more solid and unique look. But still. Skeleton's nose hole is too big - you can't even tell it's a human skull...hands and non-existent, legs and not realistically layed down like legs of puppets from the "Mappets Show"....

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:46 am

    @doomjedi wrote:WLHack - you know that I not only respect you as a Spriter - I'm much more than that - see you as role model to aspire at.
    You are better with textures (I'm crappy/lazy with textures (taking them mostly from other games), and so can only envy) than with scenery, but even with scenery you're fantastic....can't forget that tank sprite you've made...etc.

    But some (only some!) of the scenery used in this mod is pretty crappy - sure to your standards. Caged skeleton for example....just ask me - I can make a much better one for you with no extra credit. I fully respect the fact that you wanted to recreate all the wolf3dish art from scratch, to have a more solid and unique look. But still. Skeleton's nose hole is too big - you can't even tell it's a human skull...hands and non-existent, legs and not realistically layed down like legs of puppets from the "Mappets Show"....
    Yeah, I know... I am not happy with some of the sprites myself and I am very thankful for your offer of help. I am actually going to release a graphic patch for this game so I hope you would wait a moment (that is one of the things I am currently working on).

    By the way... I am going to release the chaosedit definition this Sunday. There is some things I need to do before that and I wish my fewer would go down already.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:51 am

    Just sain'....if you need me to work on some types of scenery which I'm a bit better at (like skeletons) - just ask.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:49 am

    @doomjedi wrote:Just sain'....if you need me to work on some types of scenery which I'm a bit better at (like skeletons) - just ask.
    '
    Yeah, I know. But the only way for me to learn is to do it myself, so...



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:00 am

    It's ok, pal Smile

    I keep playing your mod meantime Smile

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:53 am

    I love how wolfish your scenery seletion is, keeping all Wolf3D scenery classics and only adding to them... very wolfish feel.
    Also weapons selection seems quite balanced, only shotgun is a but overpowered (maybe not - but with way too much ammo) and is useful in too many situations that MP40 could have been used there...sometimes I'm not sure why I carry MP40 with me at all. Most encounters are close-range anyway.

    ...some guards are totally deaf and don't react even if I pass right near them...sometimes I even notice them only way after passing them.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:01 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:
    ...some guards are totally deaf and don't react even if I pass right near them...sometimes I even notice them only way after passing them.
    Okay... Sounds like I broke something when I tried to fix the problem with the first level of the demo. Added this to the task list.

    Anyway here is a comparison between the new cages and old ones:

    I am still not happy with the skeleton, but I think I am moving to right direction.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:57 pm

    Wow, that's a huge difference....on original one they looked like caged dogs. You're sure at the right direction.
    Well done!

    ...I use the original release version, this is prior to any of your bugfixes.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:09 pm

    Music in this mod is fantastic.

    Bosses doesn't seem to damage me AT ALL - and this is very frustrating. None of the Bosses seem to damage me.


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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:25 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:Music in this mod is fantastic.

    Bosses doesn't seem to damage me AT ALL - and this is very frustrating. None of the Bosses seem to damage me.
    Ok... That is something completely new and really bad.
    I will be making one major patch with updated graphics and fixed bugs later this month.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:36 pm

    Check that Bosses give damage at all difficulties

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:41 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:Check that Bosses give damage at all difficulties
    Here is a patch that fixes the problem with bosses.
    As said before, this is the last patch that I will release before TFS 2.0, unless something
    as critical as the bug DoomJedi found appears.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:56 pm

    Will saved files work?

    In general - this feels more like non properly tested beta. I think it's fair to release and declare it as such when releasing. I wouldn't play it at this phase if I'd know it's a beta. Just to be honest. Deaf guards...Non damaging Bosses....I can't reload shotgun...

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:00 pm

    Rifle seems to be pretty useless in this mod - I and used them only once - just to try.
    I think you could make the maps to showcase the rifle more, maps need to showcase weapons, rifle needs more open spaces. I'd make it even more powerful and accurate - like in Eisenfaust.

    Shotgun on the other hand - much shines over the MP40, more than it should.
    Weapon balancing is not perfect IMHO.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:14 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Will saved files work?
    Saved games will work...

    @doomjedi wrote:
    In general - this feels more like non properly tested beta. I think it's fair to release and declare it as such when releasing. I wouldn't play it at this phase if I'd know it's a beta. Just to be honest. Deaf guards...Non damaging Bosses....I can't reload shotgun...
    Well, there was a testing phase but because these critical bugs I am ready to call this initial release as a public beta. About realoading shotgun, how does this occur?

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Rifle seems to be pretty useless in this mod - I and used them only once - just to try.
    I think you could make the maps to showcase the rifle more, maps need to showcase weapons, rifle needs more open spaces. I'd make it even more powerful and accurate - like in Eisenfaust.

    Shotgun on the other hand - much shines over the MP40, more than it should.
    Weapon balancing is not perfect IMHO.
    Weapon balancing has always been my greatest weakness...
    This is also one thing I am going to improve in version 2.0.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by Andy on Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:05 pm

    This is probably not a bug, but The False Spear SDL seems to need a lot of CPU horsepower. On my Pentium III 1.0 GHz Win98 machine it runs in slow motion. Of course on my Quad-core 2.2 Ghz Windows Vista machine it runs fine.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:33 pm

    About realoading shotgun, how does this occur?
    When I have one clip loaded and press reload - nothing happens, still - only 1 clip. When reloading happens by itself after I shoot that one clip - the shotgun reloads to 2 clips.

    Weapon balancing has always been my greatest weakness...
    This is also one thing I am going to improve in version 2.0.
    PM me about it, we'll work it out, don't worry. You can't ruin such a great mod by poor weapon balancing.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:23 pm

    Yes, I spotted multiple frozen guards. Will go back to playing it soon though.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:58 am

    INHO mutants are overpowered in thid mod, both with speed and danmage...tone it down even if just for lower skill levels. They also have perfect reaction time, you have no chance to react, even around the corners.
    Also the mod seem to lack weapon to deal specifically with mutants, some anti-mutant weapon. Maybe some toxic/anti_mutant_serum spread shots that would deal effectively with mutant speed, like shotgun - but just for mutants, and with not only close-range damage.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:01 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:INHO mutants are overpowered in thid mod, both with speed and danmage...tone it down even if just for lower skill levels. They also have perfect reaction time, you have no chance to react, even around the corners.
    Also the mod seem to lack weapon to deal specifically with mutants, some anti-mutant weapon. Maybe some toxic/anti_mutant_serum spread shots that would deal effectively with mutant speed, like shotgun - but just for mutants, and with not only close-range damage.
    Okay... Need to adjust the mutants a bit more.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:46 pm

    I'm currently about level 10. If you need me to test the other weapons faster - PM me a cheat.

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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by WLHack on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:53 am

    Okay... Comparison between the new hanged skeleton and old one:


    And then about the barrel problem.
    I replaced the Paal Ostad's explosion code with Matthew's one and it nearly solved the problem. Now the bug only seems to occur when you shoot an explosive barrel with a rocket launcher when standing right next to it (something that will never happen). However if you shoot the barrel with the rocket launcher from a distance, the bug doesn't appear.

    This leads to two possibilities:
    Either the bug has something to do with the PlaySoundLocActor trying to play multiple sound at the same spot or the explosion. Personally I don't believe that explosion causes the problems as you could safely blow them up from a distance and I even made a 5x5 room full of exploding barrels and I could blow them without the game bombing.

    Level itself is not the problem here... I removed all the objects except the ones in the specific room -> still the problem occurs.



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    Re: The False Spear SDL

    Post by doomjedi on Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:07 am

    Great spriting, I knew you can pull it off.
    I're a great Spriter.

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