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    Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

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    Tralfamadorian Spy
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    Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:14 pm

    When I first learned that Rise of the Triad was originally intended by Apogee to be a sequel for Wolf3D, and then changed immediately once Apogee discovered that they never had the rights to the franchise, it got me pondering as to what the ideal sequel to our beloved game should be like. I liked that RotT wanted to do a coherent storyline for the sequel, and I wondered how to do a new story with just as much ambition as RotT's was. Then, knowing that Wolf3D functioned well as a scattered episodic experience, the sequel should just have a lot of new episodes which are not sequential. They'd have a recurring story element which gets absolved near the very end, but the experience would be purely episodic. What set these episodes apart from Wolf3D and SoD would be their tone, subject matter, level design, and a more interactive experience. This is what I have in mind for the story:




    Blazkowicz's grandson, Keen, asks him one night to tell him war stories of his espionage experience. Keen, knows the main story, but he wants to know more about his grandfather's more obscure experiences: ones which he primarily avoids. Each episode begins and ends with Blazkowicz telling young Keen his ominous missions before and after the assassination of Hitler. The settings of each episode include:




    *An Elaborate Death Camp Bunker, in which Blazkowicz cooperates with spies disguised as German guards and Jewish prisoners to shut down the entire base of operations, kill the head warden, and free all the Jews. NPC interaction scheme takes inspiration from Blake Stone.




    *The French Trenches, where Blazkowicz has to wander the paths to kills the enemy gunners, and take out the enemy tanks.



    *An excavated Old Germanic Mead Hall, where Blazkowicz faces Nazi archaeologists, skeleton warriors, Grendel-like monsters, and a dragon.




    *A Chateau for the head of the Vichy government. Work with French resistance members disguised as the house servants. Boss would be the Vichy puppet leader in a prototype armor suit like Hans'.




    *In the Berlin streets where you need to survive against crazed pro-Nazi rioters, and seeking refuge in secure city houses. Armed with only a pistol and a knife in this round.



    *Science facility dedicated to creating Super Aryans, who appear as scary blonde people, elf-like, shooting powerful energy blasts from their fists.



    *An aeronautic based episode, where B.J. Pilots a bomber to destroy an enormous zeppelin containing the beta atomic weapon.




    *The ruins of Warsaw, where B.J. Has to deal with both Nazis and Soviets while trying to help Polish relatives escaping the onslaught.

    *An episode in the vein of SoD and Indiana Jones (and James Bond), where B.J. explores forgotten catacombs in Jerusalem, and fends off undead Knights Templar and Roman centurions to find the long lost possessions of the ancient Hebrew and Christian prophets.




    *Back to Castle Wolfenstein, now overrun by Soviets after the Nazis defeat. Need to free German scientists and fellow American agents before being transported to Siberia. The whole castle is repainted and remodeled.




    *Episode set in another dimension with crystals and starry nights, where B.J. fights an enemy who has dogged Blaxkowicz throughout the entire game.




    *If the player is thorough, a secret episode involving Commander Keen aliens is unlocked.




    That's the general idea for what I have in mind. Any thoughts on how to improve my concept? Is it possible to pull off flight simulations in Wolf3D's engine? Is it possible to create outside city locations with the engine nowadays?


    Last edited by Tralfamadorian Spy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:03 am; edited 4 times in total

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:17 am

    Hi Gilbert!


    Last edited by Chokster37 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Tralfamadorian Spy
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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:06 am

    Sorry, Chokster. I usually write my posts out first in a word document, so I can check for spelling errors. I pasted the thing for my post, but I guess the processor font was too small for the forum font. I fixed it now. I had no idea the font was so tiny originally, because I thought it was the usual font size for the site. My fault entirely. It is annoying, so forgive me. Hope it reads better now.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:15 pm

    Did I post this proposal in the wrong forum area, or does it just suck?

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    My response

    Post by stathmk on Mon May 27, 2013 8:01 pm

    Welcome to the forums.

    JPB6891 is interested in making a game with Commander Keen and Blazkowicz. Maybe you can contact him.

    *An Elaborate Death Camp Bunker,...

    No. No. No. No. No. I highly discourage you from doing that. There was a very detailed Wolfenstein 3D mod in a death camp. The main person in charge of the mod is nice, but the international backlash left him in disarray. The mod never was publicly released.

    *Episode set in another dimension with crystals and starry nights,...

    What kind of dimension are we talking about? Buy Doom 2 and download The Portal, Astrostein, Astrostein 2, and Astrostein 3 by Laz Rojas at http://www.wolfensteingoodies.com/doommodsandclones/w3dindoom2/w3dindoom2.htm#Doom2 . They are time travel games.

    Or are you talking about a trippy, drug induced dimension? I can send you the saved games for All This and Wolf 3D Level 69. A Russian couple has had 69 kids and since then 69 has meant crazy or sex. Level 69 has code changes and is crazy. Send me a private message including your email address and I'll email you the saved games. Chris (Chokster37) is the comedian who did level 69 coding.

    Is it possible to pull off flight simulations in Wolf3D's engine?

    No. But there's a Tie-Fighter type level in Unreal Tournament 2004. I seem to be the only person on the wolf3d.darkbb.com forum who's heard of The Unreal Development Kit from udk.com. It has a high learning curve. I used 3D Studio Max, a similar program in college. There are courses and books about The Unreal Development Kit and I don't use it personally yet.

    Is it possible to create outside city locations with the engine nowadays?

    Yes. I can send you the save games for the non-SDL version of The False Spear.

    There are even ways to use paint programs to make clouds and background buildings. I think it's called parallax. I don't know how to do it.

    Did I post this proposal in the wrong forum area, or does it just suck?

    I didn't respond until today because I didn't notice until today.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Tue May 28, 2013 12:25 am

    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:Blazkowicz's grandson, Keen, asks him one night to tell him war stories of his espionage experience.
    As a big keen fan - any merge of Keen and BJ is most welcome.

    An Elaborate Death Camp Bunker
    As long as it's not connected to Jews or Holocaust or any particular nazi Death Camp (and even more so if it's only a Bunker without any on-the-ground action), and is just POW camp - it's ok. POW mods were done before. Just don't let him shoot POWs, only free them.

    The French Trenches, where Blazkowicz has to wander the paths to kills the enemy gunners, and take out the enemy tanks.
    This is simular to "Unsung" mod. Sure very native to Wolf3D engine.

    Science facility dedicated to creating Super Aryans, who appear as scary blonde people, elf-like, shooting powerful energy blasts from their fists.
    This is sure very wolfish, lab theme as used in endless Wolf3D mods.

    The ruins of Warsaw, where B.J. Has to deal with both Nazis and Soviets while trying to help Polish relatives escaping the onslaught.
    Well, I sure would love to see soviets more in Wolf3D mods. Though it's hard for me to see and relate to russians as bad guys in general, and in WWII in particular, being born in former USSR. I've released art for soveit soldiers and weapons/scenery etc. before, from my scrapped "Russian Front" mod.

    Warsaw? This sure goes back to be cancelled "Warsaw Uprising" mod, but this is safer, not being jew/holocaust related. I have many art and great ideas/features/plans from "Warsaw Uprising" development I can happily share (as I don't plan to resurrect that project in any visible future). To make a warfare more urban, Stalingrad-style....

    http://wolfsource.dugtrio17.com/wiki/index.php?title=SonderKommando_2_-_Warsaw_Uprising


    *Back to Castle Wolfenstein, now overrun by Soviets after the Nazis defeat. Need to free German scientists and fellow American agents before being transported to Siberia. The whole castle is repainted and remodeled.
    Maaan you hate russians....russians were on BJ's side, remember? They both fought nazis. Why would he need to free germans from the russians?

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Tue May 28, 2013 12:33 am

    On a more practical side though - as I don't know your experince in modding in general - and Wolf3D modding in particular - what you propose it the largest-scale, most deverse project in Wolf3D modding history....are you sure it's a good mod to start modding Wolf3D with?

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    Re: ...Is it possible to pull off flight simulations...

    Post by stathmk on Tue May 28, 2013 11:55 am

    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:...Is it possible to pull off flight simulations in Wolf3D's engine?...
    Sensenman is the only mod I know of where you can ride a vehicle. You ride a motorcycle in at least one of the episodes. The mod is strange and might offend you

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Tue May 28, 2013 8:09 pm

    Thanks guys for your helpful and supportive responses! I'm glad to receive guidance and help from you Wolf 3D veterans. I'll clarify any concerns you have about my proposal.

    *An Elaborate Death Camp Bunker,...

    No. No. No. No. No. I highly discourage you from doing that. There was a very detailed Wolfenstein 3D mod in a death camp. The main person in charge of the mod is nice, but the international backlash left him in disarray. The mod never was publicly released.


    Thanks for the warning, stathmk. That's why I put it in my proposal, so I know what the consequences would be if I did it. The reason why I wanted to do a death camp bunker episode for my sequel was because I wanted Blazkowicz to have personally encountered the darkest aspect of WWII, and explore how this personal encounter with the Holocaust might have shaped B.J. before he eventually embarks to stop Operation: Eisenfaust and Hitler. This sinister episode concept is one of the reasons why I titled this The Ominous Missions, because I wanted these stories which he tells his grandson are ones which nearly cost him his sanity. I may have to follow doomjedi's suggestion on how to rework this story in order to make it less controversial. I'd have to figure out how the levels of the episode will work, so I need write a design document at some point.

    Out of curiosity, what was the title of that detailed mod? Even if it did cause a backlash, I'm curious what it looks like.

    I was thinking of elaborating the POW experience in Wolf3D by doing a mod based off Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five, which relies less on gun action and more on unique interactivty and non-linear storytelling. Kind of like Thirty Flights of Loving, but's that an idea for another time.

    Well, I sure would love to see soviets more in Wolf3D mods. Though it's hard for me to see and relate to russians as bad guys in general, and in WWII in particular, being born in former USSR. I've released art for soveit soldiers and weapons/scenery etc. before, from my scrapped "Russian Front" mod.

    Warsaw? This sure goes back to be cancelled "Warsaw Uprising" mod, but this is safer, not being jew/holocaust related. I have many art and great ideas/features/plans from "Warsaw Uprising" development I can happily share (as I don't plan to resurrect that project in any visible future). To make a warfare more urban, Stalingrad-style....

    I wasn't really aiming to make Soviets bad guys. I was just trying to incorporate more of the craziness of WWII Poland into Wolf 3D's world, because Poland got torn apart by both factions. I know that the Russians fought the hardest against the Nazi, and their losses were tremendous. I'm more than happy to make the Soviets ally NPCs for B.J., because id's Polish hero has the benefit of having the most intense soldiers on his side. The reason why I had Soviets be possible enemies is because since B.J. is trying to sneak his extended family safely undercover, he might be misunderstood to be an enemy spy. I was thinking of making the situation gray, where the Soviets in the heat of the battle might not recognize ally from foe, and B.J. would have to stealthily avoid them while they're fighting the Germans. It's an idea I got while I watched The Pianist...

    Actually, you may be more of the historian of Warsaw than I am. Any books or materials you could suggest to give me a more complete picture of Warsaw would be tremendously helpful.

    I'm glad you like the idea of doing a Warsaw mod for Wolf 3D, and I would like to check out your art and plans for the game.

    Maaan you hate russians....russians were on BJ's side, remember? They both fought nazis. Why would he need to free germans from the russians?


    No no no no no no no. I don't hate Russians, doomjedi. I have been Russian fan since GoldenEye and StarCraft, Russian accents are among my favorite to impersonate, and I think Russians they are the producers of some of the most thought-provoking literature in Eastern-Europe and everywhere else. Remember, I only had two episodes where Russians were a possible threat, while every other episode is against the Germans. This episode is set post-war, when Cold War tensions messed up the former alliance between the Soviets and the US, and they were each after valuable German scientists when the war ended. I just thought that perhaps after the war ended, B.J. might have been summoned to do some early Cold War espionage when both sides were starting to distrust each other. In light of your suggestion that the Russians should be B.J.'s allies in the Warsaw episode, perhaps this episode should have moments where B.J. is forced to fight old allies, and B.J. uses to stealth to bypass them or knock them unconscious? Or, if you like, I can change the Russians to Eastern Germans.

    Anyway, I thought that it might be an interesting episode to have B.J. revisit Castle Wolfenstein post-war, and have it be radically altered by the Russian occupation. Since this is rooted in B.J.'s troubled memories, perhaps B.J. was reluctant to do this mission because he fought alongside the Russians, and also because he knew that the German scientist he was sent to acquire was part of the experiments he witnessed in Operation: Eisenfaust? I intend to make B.J.'s revisit to Wolfenstein a conflicted one, but not only because he may fight against old Russian allies. I want him to discover some discover some dark secrets which will haunt him up to the last surreal episode.

    Thanks again, for helping me reconsider how to do some of these episodes. You are one with the Wolforce, doomjedi!

    *Episode set in another dimension with crystals and starry nights,...

    What kind of dimension are we talking about? Buy Doom 2 and download The Portal, Astrostein, Astrostein 2, and Astrostein 3 by Laz Rojas at http://www.wolfensteingoodies.com/doommodsandclones/w3dindoom2/w3dindoom2.htm#Doom2 . They are time travel games.

    Or are you talking about a trippy, drug induced dimension? I can send you the saved games for All This and Wolf 3D Level 69. A Russian couple has had 69 kids and since then 69 has meant crazy or sex. Level 69 has code changes and is crazy. Send me a private message including your email address and I'll email you the saved games. Chris (Chokster37) is the comedian who did level 69 coding.


    I was thinking of a dimension more in the lines of the starry, dark levels of Duke Nukem 2 at the end of episode 1, or the starry crystal levels of Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure. My idea is that B.J. is wondering these clear crystal hallways with shiny stars surrounding him, with the echoes of the final boss rebounding at him from a distance. He's fight against critters resembling those from Crystal Caves, and S.S. soldiers made up of star energy. I guess it's more abstract and metaphysical rather than crazy.

    As a big keen fan - any merge of Keen and BJ is most welcome.

    Thanks, doomjedi. I look forward to writing and drawing the scenes between these two iconic id characters.

    JPB6891 is interested in making a game with Commander Keen and Blazkowicz. Maybe you can contact him.

    I think I shall, stathmk! I'm glad that I'm among like-minds.



    On a more practical side though - as I don't know your experince in modding in general - and Wolf3D modding in particular - what you propose it the largest-scale, most deverse project in Wolf3D modding history....are you sure it's a good mod to start modding Wolf3D with?

    Don't worry, I'm not aiming to start with this. But I definitely want to do it at some point, and I deliberately want it to be the "largest-scale, most diverse project in Wolf3D modding history." I love what you said. It's awesome. That's best thing anyone's told me here! Very Happy I brought it up, because I've been thinking about for some time, and I wanted you Wolf3D veterans to clarify what I can or cannot do in Wolf's engine. Ever since I came across Apogee's alpha concept for ROTT, which was originally Wolfenstein 3D Part II, I thought it was very ambitious for Wolf 3D's engine, that I wanted to do a sequel that was just as, or even more, ambitious that Apogee's ROTT alpha. Based upon your compliment, I think I succeeded with my idea. Now all I have to do is mod it. Granted, my Wolf 3D-2 idea is not as cohesive as ROTT, but each episode is connect by the interactions between B.J. and Keen.

    If I made any more progress on this idea, I'll let you know.

    Again, thank you all for your thoughtful responses. SmileSmileSmile

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Tue May 28, 2013 10:40 pm

    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:and explore how this personal encounter with the Holocaust might have shaped B.J.
    Or, trust my oh-so-painful experience - don't do ANYTHING Holocaust/jew related.

    I may have to follow doomjedi's suggestion on how to rework this story in order to make it less controversial
    Trust me - you'll be very sorry if you won't rework it.
    You can still do as you wish, just don't claim later I didn't warn you.

    Out of curiosity, what was the title of that detailed mod? Even if it did cause a backlash,
    Oh, just google "SonderKommando Revolt, Wolfenstein 3D ADL"....you'll find it's youtube trailer as well.
    http://wolfsource.dugtrio17.com/wiki/index.php?title=SonderKommando_Revolt

    I'm curious what it looks like.
    What the buzz looks like?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX82x56LrwM
    (second half of the video)

    You can also read my story of it in my interview on Dean's blog:
    http://deans-wolf-blog.blogspot.co.il/2012/01/wolfer-q-ian-summerfield-little.html

    You can also read the related Sonder thread of DHW forum.

    Actually, you may be more of the historian of Warsaw than I am. Any books or materials you could suggest to give me a more complete picture of Warsaw would be tremendously helpful.
    Well, I'm not an expert...while preparing the cancelled mod I mostly read about Warsaw Ghetto and Warsaw Uprising - not more general Warsaw history. I don't have any books, just use wikipedia.

    Actually, you may be more of the historian of Warsaw than I am. Any books or materials you could suggest to give me a more complete picture of Warsaw would be tremendously helpful.
    Regarding the art - I'm sure we can arrange some private manner in which I can pass those to you. The mod was not that much advanced artwise by the time it was scrapped anyway.
    It's sewer theme for example was later re-used in "Batman vs. Bane" mod and can be taken directly from there for credited use.

    Regarding ideas - we still have the subforum of that mod locked on our dev. forum. If you'll register it - I can give you access to read it directly (though most of details were left on our old abandoned dev. forum, so for more details you'll need to register our old forum as well), and even unlock it's subforum if needed.

    Or, if you like, I can change the Russians to Eastern Germans.
    Oh no, don't rush cancelling the nazis. It's modding, dude,...if you gonna cancel a feature every time some modder will say he dislikes it - you'll do no good mods at all. Keep your vision.
    Keep the russians - moreso - you can use my released "Russian Front" art, can give you a link. Those even include russian signs and my own recorded voices in russian for enemies and Bosses - - with translation.
    I was born in Ukraine and was raised on Russian WWII heroism stories, that's all. Keep the russians. Just don't over-devilize them.

    I wanted to make Russian-themed Wolf3D mod for years, especially as it's easy for a native russian speaker.

    Don't worry, I'm not aiming to start with this.
    Good call Smile


    But I definitely want to do it at some point, and I deliberately want it to be the "largest-scale, most diverse project in Wolf3D modding history." I love what you said. It's awesome. That's best thing anyone's told me here!
    Well, it's that THAT much of a compliment. Those are indeed and sinserely very great ideas for a Wolf3D mod.
    But to envision a huge-scale mod is still easier than to actually make it. And I know a thing or two about huge-scale Wolf3D projects, both released and in-work. Especially as you're currently one person, and not a modding team.
    I'll compliment you MUCH more if you actually make such a mod.


    Last edited by doomjedi on Tue May 28, 2013 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Tue May 28, 2013 11:15 pm

    Can you tell us a bit amout who you are, what is your gaming and modding experience, what are your skills?

    Regarding what Wolf3D (Wolf4SDL )engine can or cannot do...when, it can do anything a good coder can implement, so limitations are coder's skill/will and your imagination...(Our team for example didn't yet meet a challenge or wish our coder LinuxWolf couldn't implement for us, it's just crazy) just don't go too far to make Wolf3D doomish and not wolfish, a poor downgrade of a modern engine.

    Regarding things already implemented - go through existing Wolf3D coding tutorials (the fullest collection of those is on DHW forum), and play more advanced Wolf3D mods to see those in action.
    Advanced mods are for example "Absence", "Operation Eisenfaust - Origins", "Klooni", "Trench Warfare", "End of Destiny", "Project X - Insurrection"...look for mods by CodeTech, WLHack, Havoc... and other top coders of Wolf3D community.

    Features include floor/ceiling textures (including transparency), gun bobbing, rain, snow, lightning, automap, animated, damaging and interactive walls/floors/ceilings , interactive, animated, damagable and destructable scenery, distance shading/fog, footsteps, weapon reloading, directional scenery, inventory (medkit), (sniper) zoom, ambient sounds, parallaxed sky, message system, grenades, mines, cuttable fences, 4 keys, split doors, hi-res textures, teleporters, take-over turrets, shooting walls and so much more...

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Guest on Wed May 29, 2013 5:18 am

    Will this mod have cheats? I am interested in it. This makes me want to make Wolfenstein 3D Part 2 Rise of the Triad. I have already made a game that features BJ and Keen. It is called the Wolfenstein Alternate Reality Game. The first Wolfenstein 3D Part 2 Rise of the Triad game will not follow the original design sheet for sprites all the way through. It will follow it storyline wise though. Expect new bosses and maybe some new enemies. I am looking forward to this game also.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by stathmk on Wed May 29, 2013 7:33 am

    @doomjedi wrote:
    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:I'm curious what it looks like.
    What the buzz looks like?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX82x56LrwM
    (second half of the video)

    You can also read my story of it in my interview on Dean's blog:
    http://deans-wolf-blog.blogspot.co.il/2012/01/wolfer-q-ian-summerfield-little.html

    You can also read the related Sonder thread of DHW forum.

    I think that this is the response video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCFLmWmil0M Alyona has over 4,800 videos.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Wed May 29, 2013 8:26 am

    Good responses, heh Smile

    ...I still prefer to forget that mod....I moved on.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed May 29, 2013 8:48 am

    surprised it hit the gaming news outlets.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Wed May 29, 2013 9:01 am

    It hit everything.
    Newspapers, radio, TV........


    Last edited by doomjedi on Wed May 29, 2013 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed May 29, 2013 12:56 pm

    Not a peep here in America.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Wed May 29, 2013 1:01 pm

    That might be your experience, but that was not the situation at the time. Actually USA jewish communities did alot of the noise.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by WolferCooker on Wed May 29, 2013 1:04 pm

    Still didn't hit the mainstream media though. Not even U.S. Congress said anything about it and a lot of them are Jewish.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Wed May 29, 2013 11:02 pm

    Well, even "totally blowing out of proportions" - has it's proportions I guess. Otherwise you'd need to send all humanity for treatment.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Thu May 30, 2013 6:30 am

    I checked out the trailer for Sonderkommando Revolt: I'm amazed by the effort you and others have put into it, doomjedi. I'm really sorry about what happened. I still can't believe that a mere mod for Wolf3D got such an international backlash, because most people ignore the works of modders, especially modders for old games. The level of ambition, interactivity, atmosphere, and tension you put into it is incredible for a Wolf3D mod.

    Considering the unfair backlash you got, I'm amazed this other Wolf3D-styled freeware game, Voxelstein 3D, escaped notice. Vox3D is basically Wolf3D if all the game's pixels had volume, and it was designed in Ken Silverman's voxel engine. The game is intentionally distasteful in how it incorporates Nazi horrors, from gruesome cage room with death camp pictures on the wall, to a Nazi chef cleaving a pixelated child corpse over and over again. The guy who designed it is a self-proclaimed troll who delights in exploring the offensive side gaming, but the gameplay of Vox3D is brilliant. Its Wolf3D with stealth, more interactivity, C4 bombs, multiple floors, retro-3D graphics, and destructable environments. I don't what became of the project now, but the creator had ambitious plans for how to make his game even larger. Right now, Vox3D is just a one level demo.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZUdsRdokO4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emqFyZy0SX8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LgOZFKb4gU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB1eMC9Jdsw

    Back on topic, after I saw the trailer to Sonderkommando Revolt, I thought it was way more detailed and gruesome than what I had planned for my own death camp bunker episode. I was going to touch upon the Holocaust, yes, but I wanted it to be more minimalist, like how id Software suggested the Nazi horrors through the chained and caged skeletons, the blood and bone splatters on the ground, and gray Frankenstein monsters. The bunker would be a mixture of rusty 1930s German prison camp textures and Wolf3D comic book colors, and the layout of the bunker would be both stylized like Wolf3D yet authentic in a neo-brutality way. All the prisoners would be albino-pale and wear identical dark blue uniforms, while the guards all wear dark green or black trench coats and helmets. There would be no windows, and there would be numerous old skeleton fragments scattered around. I think the episode would work as interconnected hub levels, which could be revisited at any time (a la Blake Stone). The boss would be a brute sized frenetic German warden in a dark red trenchcoat, armed with a luger and a flamethrower. He can either be killed head on, or you could lead him into a dangerous room, like a poison gas room or heating room, lock the doors and activate switches to burn him alive or poison him. I would end it where B.J. enters a huge room with all the prisoners lined up on a wall texture, and once you go to them the camera switches to B.J. running toward them and motions them to follow him out of the prison.

    As I said, I want to be minimalist about the concept instead of getting full out authentic, so I need to work out some concept art of my own to visualize what how I want the episode to play.

    By the way, doomjedi, I'm cutting out the Soviet enemy concept from the Warsaw episode. They'll operate as allies in that episode. As for my post-war "return to castle wolfenstein" concept, Soviets are only enemies there because it is set in the post-war period, and the Soviets have gained control of Castle Wolfenstein, and U.S. intelligence is after German secrets which they are paranoid about the Soviets obtaining. It's not anti-Russian: just more of a Wolf3D exploration of how post-war paranoia strained the relationships between former allies, and how both sides were racing each other to obtain ex-Nazi scientists to get an edge over each other, because those scientists were highly valuable in their scientific prowess. Werner von Braun is such an example. I like the idea of B.J. being reluctant to do the mission, because of his past comraderie with Soviet soldiers in Warsaw.

    I'm beginning to like how I'm developing the background story for this mod.

    As for your last question, no, I have never had any modding experience, in Wolfenstein 3D or anything else. I'm mainly a game idea man, and I have the imagination to visualize what I want, but I'm also realistic enough to know that game engines have their limitations. That's why I posted my ideas to you, so I could know what can be done in Wolf3D's engine now. As I said before, I need to work on a design document to map out everything I want to do in the game.

    On a side note, I was thinking of using this tune for a teaser trailer, if I get any work done.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZM1NnbVfE

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Thu May 30, 2013 7:52 am

    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:
    I was going to touch upon the Holocaust, yes, but I wanted it to be more minimalist, like how id Software suggested the Nazi horrors through the chained and caged skeletons, the blood and bone splatters on the ground, and gray Frankenstein monsters.
    Well, now as you have all the information to make a decision - this is truly up to you. I failed to forsee people's reaction before, so I'm in a no place to try to guess again what the reaction might be - especially for someone else.
    Sounds something that might pass, and in no way this seems close to "Sonder". But I don't want to advise here, merely I shared with you my experience.

    I think the episode would work as interconnected hub levels
    This was one of the cooler ideas planned for "Warsaw Uprising". Especially perfect for urban environments, especially under airstrikes and bombings....some old passages can become blocked by debris, other path might be opened by earlier airstrike...so there are many place to play and revisit one same urban area...this is more realistic and can make good ground for area defence, explorations, specific missions.....

    By the way, doomjedi, I'm cutting out the Soviet enemy concept from the Warsaw episode.
    As I said - it's up to you. I don't mind.

    As for your last question, no, I have never had any modding experience, in Wolfenstein 3D or anything else
    Do you have artskills? Or coding skills?

    I'm mainly a game idea man, and I have the imagination to visualize what I want, but I'm also realistic enough to know that game engines have their limitations.
    Realistic approach is good, but there is much more to it.
    You indeed seem to be good with envisioning mods....but it's not even closely enouph for modding. You also need to have some skills, slowly gain experience - before you jump to big projects...
    I wouldn't advise you to start with this project, you can parallely prepare it concept-wise - but work on a much simpler project.
    Modding doesn't work in a way that you come with good vision for a project (we have some good ones ourselves you know, and people usually prefer to work on their own visions and projects,) - and then ask others to make it for you...with you just sitting and directing them overhead.

    Based on alot of experience in modding communities (not only Wolf3D BTW) - if you're new to modding - you need to start with something small, maybe even mappack.

    Phase 1 is to make anything on your own to show you have potential, and capability. Maybe to help some other project here and there.
    Have 1-2 such projects released - to show you can not only start projects - but also get them to the finish line.

    Phase 2 is to start a bigger project - but at first to make first things yourself, without any help - till you'll have something to show. Just like "Kickstarter" site works. You won't collect money or assistance from others if you don't have something to show.

    Phase 3 would be to show what you've done on the project so far - and ask for assistance (or make/hir.create a team) from others in specific areas where you have less capabilities/experience/talent/desire.....

    This is how it works....any other way will cause problems, issues, dissapointments- and problems to get any help from other modder.
    Modders are careful who they choose to help - not to get work wasted for a vapourware are abandonware project.

    You can't succesfully mod if all you know how to do is to envision mod, make it's plot...even if you can make a concept art....you need to be good in at least 1 modding area - code, art, or mapping.

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    DoomJedi, congratulations on your 1,000th post!

    Post by stathmk on Thu May 30, 2013 11:58 am

    DoomJedi, congratulations on your 1,000th post!
    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:...The guy who designed it is a self-proclaimed troll who delights in exploring the offensive side gaming, but the gameplay of Vox3D is brilliant.
    I can believe it. One of my video game friends contacted Ken not realizing that Ken would be rude to him.

    I can beat The Voxelstein 3D Demo level. There's a dopefish, Duke Nukem, and other Easter eggs.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Thu May 30, 2013 12:15 pm

    @stathmk wrote:DoomJedi, congratulations on your 1,000th post!.
    Oh, thank you! Smile

    Had quite a bad, stressing and depressing day....this is nice.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Thu May 30, 2013 4:12 pm

    @stathmk wrote:
    @Tralfamadorian Spy wrote:...The guy who designed it is a self-proclaimed troll who delights in exploring the offensive side gaming, but the gameplay of Vox3D is brilliant.
    I can believe it. One of my video game friends contacted Ken not realizing that Ken would be rude to him.

    I can beat The Voxelstein 3D Demo level. There's a dopefish, Duke Nukem, and other Easter eggs.

    Ken only designed the voxel engine: he didn't design Voxelstein 3D. The real person who designed it called himself Consistent Callsign, and he used to post around Ken Silverman's JonoF Forums. They're now shutdown, due to incessant bots. He still has a blog, and his work so far with the voxel engine is still incredible. He comes across as a nut, but it's all an excessively ironic act with him. It's like he's living Chaucer's darkly ironic intent behind The Prioress's Tale.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by Tralfamadorian Spy on Thu May 30, 2013 4:13 pm

    @doomjedi wrote:
    @stathmk wrote:DoomJedi, congratulations on your 1,000th post!.
    Oh, thank you! Smile

    Had quite a bad, stressing and depressing day....this is nice.

    You deserve recognition. Thanks again for helping me. It's an honor to receive guidance from one of the best modders here in Wolf3D Haven. Very Happy

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

    Post by doomjedi on Fri May 31, 2013 1:24 am

    Oh, thank you for the compliments. Donnow what to say.

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    Re: Wolfenstein 3D-2: The Ominous Missions of B.J. Blazkowicz-- Just an Idea

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