Spear Resurrection 10 Year vs. Spear Resurrection (Original)

After Schabbs told in chat he likes the original better (which he perfectly has the right to, that's his opinion), I want to know what the community thinks overall. Please vote and feel free to comment!

Why does he like the original better?

He says the new one is too sharp (rough around the edges). That's his opinion though, doesn't have to be yours.

Rough around the edges? As in?

I wish I could just copy the chat in, it explains it perfectly, but I'm not sure I have his permission plus I don't know how to get to the chat archive anyways. But the main point I remember is he said there wasn't enough focus on the decoration. I can't recall if he said too little or too much, or just not in the right places, however. I think he also had some type of difficulty-related gripe, too hardcore enemy placement or something like that. But I can't recall for certain.

I did send him a message asking him to put his vote in; maybe he'll smooth out my recollection. I guess my recollection itself is rough on the edges.

Yes! That's exactly what it is! Rough around the edges. The levels are much more cubic and controlled whereas the original levels were huge, brooding pieces showcasing why everybody's always rambling on about AReyeP's mapping skills. Finally somebody in this community shares my opinion. Thanks, Brian. I am also a bigger fan of the original, it's much tougher, more demanding and really nails you down when you first play it. You don't get that with the new one.

I thought SR is mostly just the Dos version, same maps and all? 0_o

No, the 10th anniversary edition contains new maps as well, if you chose to download them. It's just a map set, basically. But all the secrets are way too easy to find, and as Brian wisely put it, it's "rough around the edges" and definitely not as exciting as the original.

The original, I enjoyed the 10 year anniversary edition but the original is something else. That was really something special, and I enjoyed the anniversary set a lot but for me it wasn't as special. Perhaps it's the "rough around the edges" thing, perhaps it's because it's more action-packed than adventure or perhaps it's just because S:R was one of the first mods I played and completed. But the original it is for me.

@Basically anyone who's willing to discuss this: I want to go beyond the scope of just the poll question a bit and ask, to this date, what do you think is Areyep's all time best work/particularly mapping - wise, maybe list second best as well? Here is all his important work, to my best recall:

WolfenDoom
SR original
EoD
Map of the Month contributions (2007 contests)
DHW mapset contributions (Wolf3D E2, 3 levels I think to SOD)
SR 10 year

SR original and DHW Wolf3d EP 2.

SR original and EoD for me.

Same goes for me Thomas. AReyeP and MCS always do good work, but IMO it seems that they sort of rushed on the new maps. Like they didn't put the time in like they did with the original maps. And they are much more simplified.

I love EoD as well, but the SDL beta version still has a few bugs to work out. You can easily manipulate the score by constantly stepping on the enemy spawning blocks after loading and saving. You can easily have hundreds of enemies floating around.

Mind you, the EoD SDL port is not 'official', it's simply just a sample from Kyle Albert. He knows that. I don't know when MCS will make the SDL port - I have a feeling it will be a long, difficult task, so the best of luck to him when the time comes.

It turns out that this is actually the biggest irony.

It's okay though, opinions change I guess.

SR original and EOD. In both of these the levels felt as though a lot of effort were put in. There was a kind of magic. Everything seemed just right.

In SR 10th anniversary there seemed to be something missing. The level design and decoration seemed rushed. Also, the extra guards added felt unnecessary and changed the ambiance. However, all this is relative. I still felt it was good enough to get a Dome award.

ronwolf1705 wrote:SR original and DHW Wolf3d EP 2.

No EoD since it's not SDL, I'm assuming? (That would be an okay reason in my view. SDL is a must have!)

As I said though, what's ironic, is in my previous post. Probably initial excitement, I'm guessing.

They do change, that's what they call the honeymoon phase. For comparison, after I had just The Dark Knight Rises I would probably say that it was better than The Dark Knight, while now I rate it just slightly above Batman Begins.

And no EoD because I just like his maps for the DHW Wolf3d set better.

Interesting opinion Ron.

ronwolf1705 wrote:They do change, that's what they call the honeymoon phase. For comparison, after I had just The Dark Knight Rises I would probably say that it was better than The Dark Knight, while now I rate it just slightly above Batman Begins.

And no EoD because I just like his maps for the DHW Wolf3d set better.

Was my first poll on the anniversary edition during honeymoon, and if so why and what effects may it have caused on the poll result?

Well, logic would dictate that the poll was during the 'honeymoon phase' where I had just played it and enjoyed it quite a lot. It's only after you've distanced yourself a bit that you can truely judge it.

I actually didn't make the poll until over a month after the release of the new maps, odd. But if you had just played it I guess that doesn't matter.

I hope I didn't re-poll Eisenfaust too fast because the purpose of that is to hopefully eliminate any honeymoon bias that was in the first poll's results!

Well, you can't escape that really. I mean, when there's something new it always tends to be more interesting than the old stuff because it's new you know.

Still, logic dictates the new one should show a better result, because people were clearly playing it when the old poll was posted and thus by definition some time has passed.

If I had waited over a month past initial release for the other SR10YR thread (which I did), how was I still affected by honeymoon bias?

Especially considering I was getting a honeymoon influenced result from the entire community, not just one or two people, as comparing the results of the two polls makes clear?

That's how it was for me, obviously that doesn't apply to everyone else. I just speak for me.

I was never even thinking this would happen - not my intent at all - but it appears that this notion/talk about the 10 year not being all that great spilled right over into the DHW forum as well. I think one person even went as far as to call some of the designs bad! So much forSchabbs being the outlier, it's pretty obvious that when I first made that remark on Friday I was jumping the gun FAR too soon. Like, it's downright ironic I could have ever thought that, yet just four days ago I did.

About the DHW comment saying Areyep's losing his magic, I'm going to have to go with saying that's probably premature. But we can already test that just a bit, since he made a couple contributions to this year's DHW SoD set. Maybe EoD will come to SDL in the next year or so and he'll spend some time and put his real forth into making a ten year set for it. Because if he does truly his best efforts there, I'd only naturally expect the results to be pure DYNAMITE.

About this though, looking at the extremely sharp turn of the commentary when the DHW thread was resurrected, this whole set, starting with its release, seems to remind of a party where everyone was having a ball in its first hour (well, actually first month) but then everything died down and very few people left the party satisfied.

Or like a marriage with a honeymoon better than one could ever even dream of, but then everything went wrong once the couple returned home. (Yes, this is inspired by ronwolf, must give credit there.)

Well one of my favorite YouTuber's has covered this whole issue, listen to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xge8zN1V400

I'd say he gives a nice objective coverage of it and would recommend listening even if your mind is already decided.

Original SR is better. Why? Because lvls is huge and have better design and all fits great (meaning gameplay).

I agree Valts. AReyeP is a great mapper, but the new maps don't have the same feeling the original ones have.