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    Bottom of the barrel

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    Thomas
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    Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:43 am

    I'm maxed out here. What should I do for my next mod? Any ideas?

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:36 am

    Couple ideas - just a quick brainstorm:

    1) Mod with a base of one of your favorite other mods. Like Totengraeber or SR. SR gives you quite a bit of extra stuff you can use without having to deal with the code yourself. Smile Of course it could be EOD, but I prefer to leave that out until it's in SDL. (I left out Eisenfaust Origins cause I'm not sure it would be appropriate to make a third-party mapset for something so new. But doomjedi ultimately decides this.)

    2) Use the Lost Episodes as a base for something. You mentioned that yourself not too long ago. Maybe "Return to Danger 2.0", with generally the same graphics, sprites, sounds, etc. but appropriately designed levels and changed intermission texts where appropriate. Maybe even "Ultimate Challenge 2.0" just to have a third set of bosses (find some new ones) and actually properly conclude the story FormGen had intended. I don't think you should just rip Archer's maps though, even if they are okay; still make the levels new.

    3) SDL-convert some classics that haven't been converted yet, whether yours or other ones you've played!

    4) Study the style of some of your favorite other authors and see if you can adapt to it and use that style in a mapset of yours! (Giving credit where it's due: idea stems from this Doom-related thread, on another site:http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/60264-doomworld-secret-santa-project-imitation/)

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:51 am

    Those are some good suggestions, WolfForever. Allow me to retort:

    1) This has crossed my mind several times - a Totengraeber map set (I'm not sure I'll be able to handle Spear Resurrection without it seeming incredibly inferior, 'cause AReyeP seems unbeatable at everything) - but I just don't think it'll work out. I see this idea as wanting to replace the original - something I do not want as Totengraeber is my absolutely favorite Wolfenstein mod. But good suggestion though.

    2) And I just wandered around my LE folders today looking for inspiration. I recently completed a bettering of the respective OBJ- and MAPDATA files for both mission packs (only the walls differ; UC is more tidy, where as RtD placed their walls rather haphazardly in the VSWAP file) - but not being keen on the LE storyline, the ceiling colors (they have no suitable use for either turquoise or dark yellow ceilings) and the lot... I don't know.

    3) This has also crossed my mind, but I think it's way too early to reflect. I'm not sure if anyone would want to download them except you maybe, and whoever would agree to re-code those mods would just be wasting their precious time. I am too inexperienced to use any type of code (last time I touched Borland was in 2006), so sadly I cannot 'port' myself.

    4) An idea I've thought of following (as of now) is sort of like ack did in acktung! - not use the respectable episode's plot (such as I did in my Wolfenstein 3-D map set - officers not introduced until episode 3, no 'nocturnal' walls in the early episodes etc.) --- I may add some of the SoD walls. It can't hurt.

    Yesterday I ping-ponged this idea with Havoc:

    * Thomas presents
    * Demos removed
    * Ceilings & music tile-based
    * Unlimited guards/objects
    * Ammo raised to 200
    * Ammo box added (plus digitized pickup sound)
    * 4 keys (same as the 2 regulars) - I still need that "jammed door" feature, just so you know
    * 32 new wall tiles
    * 10 new block objects
    * 2 new pass-thru objects
    * 6 new music chunks
    * All bosses from Spear (plus the ghost from the final level) added - each with their respective Spear "setup" (aka EXACTLY as they appear in Spear) - I included all sounds and digitized sounds in the respective boss' folders
    * 1 extra digit in score section on status bar and level no.
    * 120 seamless levels

    - Trans Grosse (GOLD KEY) on level 12
    - Barnacle Wilhelm (GOLD KEY) on level 24
    - The Ubermutant (GOLD KEY) on level 36
    - The Death Knight (GOLD KEY) & the Angel of Death (SILVER KEY) on level 48 - After killing the Angel of Death and opening the silver key room, you will get the Spear. The Spear must be an END LEVEL OBJECT - the end level message will read "SPEAR OF DESTINY OBTAINED!" and a 15,000 bonus - and then on to level 49.
    - Otto Giftmacher (GOLD KEY) on level 60
    - Gretel Grosse (GOLD KEY) on level 72
    - Gen. Fettgesicht (GOLD KEY) on level 84
    - Hans Grosse (GOLD KEY) on level 96
    - Schabbs (GOLD KEY) on level 108
    - Hitler (death cam) on level 120

    If there is a way for you to make par times tile-based as well (one tile for each 15 seconds) that would be great. I know it's been done back in the Map of the Month contest days.

    But he wisely replied with the copyright which may be violated here. Face it, should this ever materialize, it's pretty much both full mods in one game. Not a wise thing. Not something I've thought about much, either. I haven't released many mods without all files being included.

    Going with idea no. 4 I'd only have to include the map files and the VSWAP. Very good idea, I think. Perhaps I should follow this idea, spare Havoc the grief of working with me and my constant changing of things (lol) again and, you know, just get on with it. Make 60 brand new maps without rehashing anything whatsoever, or releasing haphazard demos. That would be so nice...

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Guest on Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:36 pm

    Hi Floyd!


    Last edited by Chokster37 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:27 pm

    Do a challenger difficulty mapset with lots of traps (done only with normal mapping using floor codes, deaf guards, etc). Try to do something outside of the box with a different, dynamic fighting style. (Guards coming at you from multiple angles,etc.)



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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by doomjedi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:59 pm

    As I said before - I'd love a "Time to Kill"-style mod where you use some nice recolorings of existing art, add a few (just a few) new scenery art (tastefully and wolfishly) to freshen the designs and give you new desing options/opportunities.
    I love playing good "oldschool" mods with some fresh art surprises used wisely.

    Even just adding (cuttable?) directional wire fences can freshen up the old Wolf3D.

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:58 pm

    Haha, yes, an oldschool mod with the only new sprite being a cuttable fence to use in the outdoor areas for which we have no textures.

    Nice try, doom! Cool

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Andy on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:58 pm

    I also think making a new and improved Spear Mission Pack with the better of the 2 VSWAPs would be great. Work with the vanilla SoD engine like Archer had to. Be like the painter that has to use a limited colour palette...

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:46 pm

    @Andy: They can't be Lost Episodes if they use the original SOD VSWAP, or can they? I say you decide this one. I'm not sure myself, they are definitely a signature feature of the Lost Episodes, but just being a feature doesn't mean it's a strength.

    Definitely however, as far as input I can give goes, I'd say the biggest problem with the Lost Episode graphics is that there are way too many blue walls (this even extends out to all the weapons, no less!). Maybe take the shaping/design of the walls, but change some of them to colors these VSWAP's are lacking (such as brown)? I don't think the shape/design of stuff in the Lost Episodes is bad. Just need more color variety in spots.

    BTW: What are some mods, if any, that you're working on or would be willing to give a go at for a conversion to SDL?

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:48 pm

    Honestly Thomas I would like to see a well-rounded mod in the caliber of Coming of the Storm, but I know you're not big on adding more weapons and different enemies.


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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Andy on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:06 am

    @WolfForever wrote:@Andy: They can't be Lost Episodes if they use the original SOD VSWAP, or can they? I say you decide this one. I'm not sure myself, they are definitely a signature feature of the Lost Episodes, but just being a feature doesn't mean it's a strength.
    Well, I did say to use the better of the two VSWAPs, referring to the Mission Pack ones. I'm just saying not to start hacking away at the graphics or EXE, just do superior maps for the Mission Pack/LE.

    Thomas
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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:53 am

    @Andy wrote:I also think making a new and improved Spear Mission Pack with the better of the 2 VSWAPs would be great. Work with the vanilla SoD engine like Archer had to. Be like the painter that has to use a limited colour palette...

    I know, it would be both a challenge as well as giving the LE environment a kick in the butt. It's just that, there are 5 boss levels and only 21 maps! It'll really take some. I don't know. If you won't make a big fuss about the maps, if they're a bit shorter and more compact (like my episode 3 and 5 maps for my Wolfenstein 3-D map set) I could start the map set right away.

    @WolfForever wrote:@Andy: They can't be Lost Episodes if they use the original SOD VSWAP, or can they? I say you decide this one. I'm not sure myself, they are definitely a signature feature of the Lost Episodes, but just being a feature doesn't mean it's a strength.

    Definitely however, as far as input I can give goes, I'd say the biggest problem with the Lost Episode graphics is that there are way too many blue walls (this even extends out to all the weapons, no less!). Maybe take the shaping/design of the walls, but change some of them to colors these VSWAP's are lacking (such as brown)? I don't think the shape/design of stuff in the Lost Episodes is bad. Just need more color variety in spots.

    BTW: What are some mods, if any, that you're working on or would be willing to give a go at for a conversion to SDL?
    Yes, I got really bummed too when I found out that the brown stone wall (based on the gray stone wall from LE, it's used in e.g. Totengraeber level 13) wasn't from here. That's a shame. We have brown ceiling colors on numerous levels. That's going to be tough to swallow - 'cause I like synchronicity in walls and ceilings when you're not vanilla Wolfing.

    @WolferCooker wrote:Honestly Thomas I would like to see a well-rounded mod in the caliber of Coming of the Storm, but I know you're not big on adding more weapons and different enemies.
    Listen, Overkill had, I don't know, 7 new enemies (including a mutant SS and a robot) as well as a missile launcher. I know it's pretty rookie compared to any other mod, but sure, I would love to make a mod with missile launchers, flamethrowers, rifles and shit, but who on earth would want to code that? Not to mention, one thing goes well with another - if I have to have new weapons, I need new enemies. Then I need new features. Before you know it I'm stuck with switch operated pushwalls, tesla coils and exploding nuclear barrels but am not able to use them properly.

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:46 am

    Yeah I figured. Carry on.

    Thomas
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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:50 am

    If you really have such a hard-on for my lack of wanting to work with complicated EXE's, then make me one, damnit. 'cause I'm sick of your jive, bro! Basketball scared

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:53 am

    I certainly wish I could, Thomas. Just trying to give you ideas of some sort. It's all you bro.

    Thomas
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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:08 am

    I'm open to ideas, man, but I am not open to go cap in hand to any given coder and ask for tons of material. Not after Havoc freaked me out about the copyright thing which I've never even thought of before!

    Listen, I'm just about to do that Lost Episodes map set. Is that okay, WolferCooker? Do I have your understanding, your little nod of de head?

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:11 pm

    LOL, hey it's all you Thomas.

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:13 pm

    'deed it is!

    Ah... Now I've been balling around for too long without getting to make that map. Been trying to find a good way to grease the levels with the brown ceiling, seeing as there are no actual brown wall textures in LE.

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:24 pm

    BY THE WAY, WolferCooker, this is why Thomas never bothers using advanced coding:





    If I ever play a mod where this happens, I will personally kiss whoever made it. Yes, sir!

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:53 pm

    ?!?!?!?!

    Ummm okay I understand now.

    What kind of bug is that?

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:24 pm

    It's not a bug. It's simply confusion after going into post-level 60 realms - all sprites come from one of the levels you've previously been in, and the textured floor and ceiling have been enabled, but not used regularly, it's just crazy.

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:34 pm

    Now I see you like textureless floors and ceilings. Hey don't get wrong, your mods are great and I played most of them. I'm just not a big fan of old school Wolf3d. That's all.

    NovoWolf is the one I like the most.

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by Thomas on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:46 pm

    If you like NovoWolf, you should try my newest output:

    http://www.veracottis.co.uk/irondream.zip

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    Re: Bottom of the barrel

    Post by WolferCooker on Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:47 pm

    I'll check it out

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