Warning: These series of posts may contain more mature language and/or graphic material.
Going to make a short one for today. Some people might say that the atheists do not tolerate people and get in people's faces. Well, scientists don't exactly go to churches, picketing at the fences, telling the church-goers that the science they teach is wrong. It's the religious people that want to shove their information into the science classroom. And religion isn't a fucking science. There is no evidence to support it. People want others to just say 'here's evolution, and here's religion, and they are both equally good options.' No, they are not.
Now, let's get to the core of today's point: Religion is too widespread. It controls USA, period. All presidents have been and will continue to be Christian only. Parents brainwash their children before they can make a decision for themselves. Children are impressionable. The result is a flawed human being. One that is damaged by the dogma and general bullshit spread by the parent. It's like a virus. By nature, parents must spread their word of religion. It saddens me that a few of my friends have fallen prey to this deception, including a person that I still admire greatly.
Why the fuck do I care? Why not let them be? When a person is unable to objectively analyze things, do things without the restraint of religion, that is a problem. That is a core problem with the logic and thought process of an individual. Do I want to be friends with a person that worships the Loch Ness monster? Fuck no, they're insane. Do I wanna be friends with somebody that believes in a burning bush, talking snake, son of god, resurrection, virgin birth, god that watches you have sex and really cares about how and who you have sex with? No, I cannot.
So therein is the dilemma. If I shun all religious people from my life, I lose many friends, and that special person. If I accept people for being religious, I accept people for being flawed, dumbasses. Now, you might make the case that they are just victims, sick in some way, shape, or form, and I should tolerate and try to cure it. Well, no. First off, if a person is a victim to a virus that causes the common cold, do I let them cough on me? No. I tell them to get the fuck away until they're not sick. Second, religious people tend to fall into two categories: 1) (Majority) Uneducated, ignorant people that never read their own Bible, or 2) Legitimately insane Christians in which reason and logic has long jumped off the train. The former is easier to convince, but the second is impossible. Even with the first, people cling to what they know, what they live by.
Religion has a " moral license " to be insulted.
People get insults, and use that as an excuse to run away. (In their defense, if they change their mind and see the light, it won't be in front of my face, it'll be behind closed doors. It's a shame to admit your life has been devoted to a sham) When a Christian wants to debate me and ask me why I don't believe in their god, I'm not insulted. I welcome a debate. I don't argue from authority, I argue with facts, reason, and logic. Do I get pissy over people saying 'bless you' after I sneeze? No. Then what's the problem here? Give and take. Learn to debate. Don't be a pissy bitch.
So I'm at a crossroads. If I don't shun religious nutcases, I compromise who I am as a person. I'm saying, these guys are fucking deluded, but I wanna party with them cuz i got no friends lul.
Not So Holy Now
Just going to post a picture this time.
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Everybody is Awesome!
It seems like in USA we live in a society where everybody is good. Everybody takes home a trophy for trying hard some other retarded reason. Newflash: The world doesn't work that way. There are people who are better than you at something. Period. They are completely superior in every possible way in that task. There are no subjectives, no buts, and, ors. This thought arised when I was looking at religion. Theologists are saying 'my side is just as good as yours, everybody's side is equal and has a right to their own opinion', You have a right to stupidity, but you don't have a right to call your stupidity equal to rational thinking. Sometimes, life is blunt and uncaring, black and white. Some stances on an issue are simply flawed.
I have a friend (who is a nice guy, in his defense) who isn't that intelligent from my observations. When asked what he thought about his intelligence, he said he's smart in some things. Which ones? 'You know, religion and theory'. Give me an example. 'Everybody has a good side no matter how bad they may seem, you know, they've got a bit of good and a bit of evil'. ......No. I guess people have to get over the fact that some people are more important than you. They affect more people in every way possible.
Everybody wants to think themselves as above average. A common statistic used by psychologists is that 80% of people think they are above average. Straight away you should be able to tell that something is wrong. For the sake of our egos, perhaps because the people know and love are the very same biased people we turn to in order to judge how good we are--we pump ourselves up to be more than we are. The irony is that intelligent people tend to think they are average. So basically speaking, dumb people think they are smart. Smart people think they are average. Why? Well, smart people might hang out with other smart people, and in comparison look dumb. I actually know a friend like this.
So, rest assured, mates. You are probably average intelligence. That's not so bad. Hell, being under average intelligence ain't so bad either. You can more than compensate by being hard working - that beats being smart and lazy any time.
Being wise is having knowledge from experience, received through age. Knowledge is simply knowing facts and information. It has no bearing on actual intelligence. Intelligent people can make novel connections. They can come up with things nobody else has ever come up with before. There's a certain level of critical thinking involved. Think of facts as surgery tools. Having good surgery tools doesn't mean you won't kill somebody if you do surgery one them. But having good surgery tools is invaluable to a good surgeon.
There are different type of intelligence... being very socially adept without any training is in itself a form of emotional intelligence. You read people's expressions and act accordingly. Many people have to learn how to act through socializing during school. But no matter the type, look objectively; don't cut a guy slack because he's bad at other things.
10/18/12 - Updated 10/31/12
Common Arguments for Religion
1. If God didn't exist, where would our morals come from?
Answer: This question is actually an insult rolled into a question. You are saying that human beings are not able to define what is good or bad without religion. Hey, I'm agnostic. I'm not out killing people. I don't need to be afraid of divine punishment to do good things. I do good things be I feel like it. I'm quite offended. Religious people have done horrible things; Child mutilation (both female and male), caused wars and crusades, forced people to be baptized, etc. One can argue that atheists and agnostics have done bad things, for example Hitler. But Hitler's religious affiliation did not cause him to do what he did. If you say that Hitler thought the way he did because he lacked morals, that makes no sense because the Catholic Church itself has done multiple inexcusable acts. Excluding child molestation, look at Rwanda. Converted the crap out of them, told them condoms increased chance of HIV. So here we have a HIB outbreak, and people are being told 'just abstain! Be loyal to your wife/husband!' and not to use condoms. Gee, I wonder why there was a problem in the first place? Like it or not, the Catholic Church has done so much damage. After the shove religion down your throats or killed you, they ensure you have HIV, THEN they offer some money to you to look like the good guy. Good guys, they are not.
If morality comes from the supernatural, name me on moral action made by a believer that couldn't be made by non-believers.
Can you make an example of a vile act that could only be done in the name of religion?
I thought so.
Hitler is also a bad example. He was a a Christian. While the other horrible leaders were not, I find it ironic that 'god' orchestrated all of this and caused it to happen; god is the source of all happiness, and all the bad stuff comes from us... and who made us... god. All of this is no more bloody than all of the crimes and wars started by Christians and religious people... 'kill all men and children, keep the virgin women (for rape)'...
Nobody owns me or has the right to own me. If you made children, you don't have a right to do whatever you want with them. The thought of a god standing by, watching men kill each other and die during childbirth during the last 98,000 years and then randomly stepping in during the last 2 thousand years... THEN God decides the best way to fix this is to make a son, then have him offered as a human sacrifice in the remote part of Palestine is the BEST WAY to fix things. In fact, if there is a god that can interfere with our lives, it is incredibly immoral for god to allow child rape and torture. Saying 'god has a plan' is so ridiculous, you must be morally bankrupt to suggest it. There is a god, that creates us sick for his pleasure. There is a god, that force us into everlasting torment for committing THOUGHT crimes.
What of absolute morality? First off, as you will read later, the absolute morality brought on by religion isn't absolute, or really moral. I don't even think I WANT absolute morality. I want morality that is discussed and understood by everybody. We all know that our definition of what is and isn't moral changes over time. As it should. Religion has ABSOLUTE morality, so over time it becomes what it is: old and irrelevant. What about the ten commandments? Trust me. I can make better commandments than that. That's not a reason for god at all - unless I'm a god, and a better one at that.
2. But Eric, religious belief is my evidence! Here I am telling you, I believe in the metaphysical world.
Imagine if a friend of yours runs up to you, tells you that his life changed when he was destined to marry Jessica Alba. The conversation would go like this if I were you.
Me: Why do you believe this?
Him: You don't understand. This belief gives my life meaning. I now know my purpose in life. It's It's to be Alba's husband. This belief has made me a better person. Now I'm very patient and I treat kids very well because one day I have to raise it with Alba.
Me: *Insert profanity*
Him: You can believe whatever you want, but I don't want to live in a universe where I don't marry Jessica Alba.
Now replace marrying Alba with believing in God. Or, imagine a dude that believes Elvis is still alive. Hey, I know this isn't a scientific god, but it's a faith thing, it's a metaphysical thing.
You be came Christian because you were raised in a Christian family. The same goes on for other religions in other countries. This demonstrates that people's beliefs are shaped by their surroundings. If there is an absolute truth, it shouldn't be able to be switched based on your own country of origin. Also, sit back and think about this. God made a son in a virgin's womb. who then went on to be killed and resurrected. This same god is apperently all-knowing, and loving. This same god tells others to kill other people. This same god wants to save us all. This same god won't save us and will send us to eternal torment if we don't believe in him. To fix this, this god decides to let a few people see him, and write books about it centuries later. 2000 years later, it ends up being illiterate bullshit. This all-knowing god never thought about a better way to demonstrate this god truly exists. This god REALLY wants to save you, but he wants you to believe in him without evidence, through 'faith', and this god will kick the shit out of you if you don't. How do you know this god is for real? Well, this book says so. Has anybody actually went to heaven? We don't know because people that leave for heaven can't come back. We just have to have 'faith'. Of course, being all-knowing, this god cares deeply about your sexual thoughts, habits, and desires. This god thinks a man with a man is an abomination. Clearly, this god has made flawed human beings. This god wanted to make people in the image of himself, but failed, horribly.This 'merciful' god will send billions of people into hell, where they will wish they had died because it would take torture to a whole new level. When it said 'you should only worship me', it was because people believed there were other gods at the time. So this god is a jealous god. Sound familiar? Sound ridiculous? Yeah. Why is faith, the act of believing in something without evidence, somehow noble? Seems stupid in my eyes.
At least Lucifer didn't create human beings with free-will, intelligence, and curiosity, and then curse them and all of their decedents (yet unborn) for using those very traits.
"You want to expand your minds, learn about the universe, and improve yourselves? How DARE you?! I created you to be puppets, not peers!"
3. Religion is useful, though.
Answer: You don't believe something because of its utility. Religion can be useful, but have no actual content. It functions like a placebo. And there's a reaosn why doctors don't give out placebos to patients to make them 'feel better'.
4. What happened before the big bang, then?
Answer: Nobody knows for sure. There are theories, such as the multiverse. Sounds weird, I know. But the universe doesn't care about your common sense. If you were born in the 18th century and I told you that this cup I have right here is actually energy in another form, and that I can unleash the energy and theoretically make a huge-ass bomb, would you believe me? No. And here's the point: Religion is old. It is very old. Because of this, the crap we get from the bible are mostly accepted simply because they are old. Modern (non-shitty, non-religious, real) science is very new when you look at the human timeline. That is the reason why science is not trusted. It's new, it's whacky, I don't know about it (and you don't), get it away from me, I don't want to believe it. What strikes me is the arrogance of religious people who act like they've posed a question that destroys agnostics and atheists by asking about scientific theories they don't even understand. Big bang is a theory. Yes, but so is the theory of gravity. A theory has been tested in experiments and has shown time and time again, the ability to predict things based on its claims.
Don't question big bang without going to study it. And you didn't because it is extremely complex. It doesn't take FAITH to believe that the big bang is real. Really. Don't use the words like 'space and time' or god existing outside 'space and time' if you don't even know exactly what it means. All scientific evidence aside, I find it more ridiculous that there is a god that invents the world, does all of these immoral things, and desperately care about who we have sex with. God, if you see this, stay the fuck away from what I do and do not do in bed.
But let's assume for a second, that we have literally no clue about what happens before the Big Bang. First off, you are in no position to disprove the leading theoretical physicists of today. (And FYI: Most of them are not religious. It's because they know how to think for themselves and can smell BS from a mile away.) The complexity of it all is enough to destroy both of our respective brains. Second, even if we had no clue, that doesn't prove there is a god. Before people had no clue about what lightning was, and just pointed to the sky and said 'IT'S THE GODS!'. It was used to make sense of the things that occur, such as diseases. As time passed, people grew a pair and started thinking for themselves. Going against the antiquated ideas of the church was dangerous, though. Regardless, eventually we knew that the world wasn't flat, the sun didn't rise and fall around the earth, etc. If you want to define god as what we don't know, then god is an ever-shrinking pocket of scientific ignorance. Be prepared for the day that god ceases to exist altogether. My advice to you is this: Get a book, read about what evolution really IS. While its main principle is simple, the entire thing is very complex. Stop trying to disprove it, and read on it. Get educated about it. THEN, if you still doubt it, debate about it. The difference between science and religion is that science isn't afraid to admit science is wrong. That's how people move forward. That's the problem with religion: its ideas are antiquated and struggling to keep up with a world where science is booming.
Speaking of arrogance: The idea that god cares about YOU, but not other animals, that god created man as image of God, is just ridiculous. It's very arrogant and self-indulgent. Oh, I'm so great, I must be SPECIAL! Jesus Christ will probably come to earth in my lifetime! I'm that important!
Also, if the universe DID come from nothing, and in your arrogance you assert that is not possible, what about God? God came from nothing? You can't make exceptions for God.
On another note: Religious people want atheists to explain the big bang (when they are not scientists), but cannot explain god. God brought suffering into the world by giving up 'free will', where he will then punish us for using the very same attributes god built into us. You have to believe God with NO EVIDENCE. The omniscient god's way of convincing us he exists is by stone tablets and word of mouth over centuries where it is then written into books (in a dead language, that is stupid, the idea that all-knowing god would choose a dead language to dictate to the world about his existence) of multiple languages, extremely open to interpretation and dogma and general bullshit. All to get into God's exclusive club called 'heaven'. You have to fit a certain profile, think a certain way, love Jesus over your family, be willing to sacrafice your son, do this not from fear of hell, not be homosexual (because god is very concerned about what you do in bed), etc etc. I call bullshit.
What people fail to realize is even if evolution and the big bang are disproved, it does not prove god. Not knowing does not mean your god is real. Even if the argument from ignorance, that failed logic, is correct, why YOUR god?
One last point: Something CAN come from nothing. Go study quantum mechanics.
5. All you have are theories? That's just bullshit, it takes less faith to believe in god.
Answer: The definition of a theory is a hypothesis that has been tested over and over and seems to fit. It's not a hypothesis. It's a simple idea whipped out because scientists have nothing better to do. You can't say 'I BELIEVE' in the word of god. The bible is not evidence to back up your belief until you prove the bible to be true. Faith, by definition, is believing without adequate proof. I call that wishful thinking. The human brain is very prone to malfunction. Very often, we think we are thinking rationally, where in fact we are not. We are also prone to mental illnesses and hallucinations. When all we can sense are electrical impulses interpreted by the brain, it's not hard to see why some people sense false things. Sometimes this leads to people feeling insecure. Or maybe sometimes the awe and wonder of the world leads people to believe there is a god - which in itself is horrible logic. It's always the less educated ones that claim to be able to disprove evolution or prove god.
Sidenote: For those that want to bring up 'The Matrix' paradox - That we all live in a world that's not real, and we can't find out for ourselves what the real world is... that may be true, but there's no way to prove it. So I'll toss that aside for the purpose of this article. Another brought up idea is what I call the 'Stargate Idea', from the sc-fi, Stargate, where aliens use technology to pose as gods and enslave mankind. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from divine presence.
You cannot assert that because science changes and finds better answers, that science knows nothing; it's in fact, the beauty of science; the willingness to accept one is wrong and find the correct answer. Just because the date of the universe changes according to our understanding, it doesn't mean that all answers are equally as correct; it's very incorrect to say that the universe is 1 year old, or 6000 years old. If you go to the doctor, you trust the knowledge science has brought to the table for health. You accept science for everything until it contradicts your faith. You can't say you have all this absolute truth from the bible, give no truth and no evidence, then turn around and take science for everything else. You accept modern health with open hands, and applaud new discoveries made for health instead of yelling 'SCIENTISTS KNOW NOTHING!', even though at any time in any field of study, old things may be disprove. Or, you are a nutcase that really hates doctors, in which case I say: You're choking. You want me to do the Heimlich maneuver, or pray for you? If you answered the second, fuck off my forum and stop reading this.
6. Name me one piece of evidence against the bible.
1. Krishna in India 1000 years before Christ. Carpenter, born of a virgin, baptized.
2. Persian god, Mithra, 600 years before Christ. Born December 25th, performed miracles, resurrected on the third day, known as the lamb, the way, the truth, the light, saviour, the messiah.
3.Timothy 2:11-12 : "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man,she must be quiet."
4. Deuteronomy 22:23-24 : "If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you."
5. Exodus 21:7 ""If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do."
6. Genesis 38:24 "About three months later Judah was told, “Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant.”Judah said, “Bring her out and have her burned to death!”"
7. Multiple religions of the Meditteranean region a thousand years before Christianity had similar tales.
8. 1280 BC - Egyptian Book of the Dead describes a god named Horus,s on of the god Osiris, born to a virgin mother, baptized in a river, later beheaded, tempted in the desert like Jesus, healed the sick, fixed the blind, walked on water, raised the dead, had 12 disciples, crucified, and resurrected after 3 days.
9. There hasn't been a shred of evidence for Moses' story. After having god kill every firstborn son to get what Moses and 'god' wants (why doesn't god just change the pharoah's mind? Much less bloodshed, this is mass genocide), Moses and his company wanders the desert for 40 years. Not a single shred of evidence left to prove it. And they were out for FORTY YEARS.
10. Exodus 22:18 (KJV) "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (With all the divine knowledge, god doesn't know witchcraft ain't real?)
11. Jeremiah 19:7-9 Killing is good!
12 Isaiah 13:15-18 Mercy to enemies is over-rated.
13. Judges 11:29-40 - Child abuse is pretty cool.
It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK. If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself.
Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) There are many more quotes on this topic at my "Do Not Ignore the Old Testament" web page.
I know that most Christians believe that God is a good and loving god, and wants people to do good things. I believe that most people want to do good things and behave morally. I also believe that many Christians haven’t really read the Bible, or just read certain passages in church. This is understandable, as the Bible is hard to read due to its archaic language and obscure references. Also many priests and preachers don’t like to read certain passages in the Bible because they present a message of hate not love.
7. The bible didn't mean that literally.
Answer: ORLLY? Because where did it say 'don't take this literally'? In science do we say 'the big bang started the universe... (in fine print) nah, just kidding!'? Because it sounds like you are picking and choosing which part of the bible to take literally: the part you WANT to take literally. And when you do that, everything can mean anything, and when that happens, everything means nothing. Speaking of which, no, evolution and the Christian belief where god created mankind in 6 days and rested (the almighty god is too tired!) on the 7th conflicts with the theory of evolution. You can't say 'for god it's only 5 days where in fact for us it's billions of years', because that's not literally said in the bible.
8. The bible is harmless.
Answer: The bible isn't harmless, it's obsolete. How can people objectively investigate the world when they believe everything is made by god? How do you demonstrate intelligence when you fail a basic test of intelligence and believe in huge, fantastic claims, and state with certainty what happens after death (if you are going to heaven after death, go kill yourself...), and be intelligent? Something doesn't ring true. Also, you weren't BORN a Christian. You were TAUGHT to be a Christian. That's not freedom of religion. You're having religious dogma throw in your face at an age before you can rationally think for yourself, and abandoning that faith later on in life isn't just distressing, it simply won't happen for the majority of them even when the evidence says otherwise. Every time a parent teaches their child to believe in a religion, they are forcing it upon them. Yes, they can technically choose to say 'it's bullshit', but do you recall saying that when you were 3-5 years old about Santa Clause? No, because it simply doesn't happen. It's like telling a kid, 'Hey, I'll rape you, ok?' and when the kid says 'ok' because the kid doesn't know what 'rape' means, that makes it ok because the child 'choose' to allow it. No. If you want to believe in a space daddy, that's one thing. But if you want to make others believe in space daddies, you're like a cancer to society.
Don't forget the child mutilation, crusades, HIV, etc. Think about it: Good people will do good things regardless of religion. Bad people will do bad things. But it takes religion to make a good person do horrible things. Think of one thing done by a religious person in the name of religion, that is good, that a non-religious person can't do without. Now do the opposite. Now think of one wicked thing a religious person did because of religion.
All presidents of USA have been Christians. Why? Because it's unofficially required. There isn't a separation of church and state, and people know it. What this is, is intolerance to a certain degree.
Religion has no harm? Atheists are discriminated against. America is a Christian nation. Every president has been Christian. It was founded under Christian principles. It dominates our way of life in America. President Bush himself said that he doesn't care for or trust atheists. Atheists get discriminated. But ok, let's just look at the general population in terms of effect. Crusades. Inquisition. Persecution of the Jewish people. Injustice towards woman (AKA half of the population). Forced conversion of indigenous people, especially South America. African slave trade. How about the whole entire Middle East? Christians shoved rheir religion into little kids' throats. In Africa, people are taught not to use condoms in places with the worst HIV rates in the world. Pastors actually lied saying that condoms increase the chance of contracting AIDS. This wasn't the motion of a few crackpots. The Catholic Church agreed. Gays are condemned not for that gays have done, they have been condemned for what they are. You're made in the image of not? Oh no you're not. You're a faggot. And you can't join our church and be saved. You will now die in eternal torment. Not only that. Religion, being an old relic from our past to explain previously unknown phenomena, will hinder the scientists trying to understand it. If the human species is to rise to its full height, we cannot have the giant majority of the world deluded.
I can't say religion lowers your IQ-- I can say that those with lower IQ tend to believe in it. The most religious countries are the poorest. That's a fact. (USA is primarily Christian. What is our debt now?) People with the lowest IQs tend to be religious. There was only one test where atheists lost to theologists... That's in a test where Atheists lost... because they were more nervous... because their brain activities showed they actually gave a damned about finding out the answer to the question. The theologists breezed through, no pressure, because they can't be assed to care.
And no, the bible telling people to kill other nations, and keep only the virgin women (for what else, to rape) would not be counted as 'harmless'. And yeah, Inquisition, Crusades, etc.
The problem with, say, Christianity is this: If you are 100% sure that me, being an agnostic atheist, will go to hell and suffer an eternal hell, you must be obligated to get be away from the path that leads me to hell. If you don't, you are morally bankrupt because you don't think using up time in your life is worth it to save me from eternal suffering. That, of you don't really believe in god and hell. So by logic, all real, non-morally bankrupt Christians must spread their word and do all they can to convince people. This is by nature, like a virus.
Bad people do bad things.
It takes religion to make a good person do bad things.
It takes some superstition, some idiocy, for normal people to want to mutilate their children; somehow it is ok to cut off a child's foreskin, to saw it a bit there (because the image of god you were made in isn't good enough), and cutting off a female's genitals isn't OK. People even laugh about circumcision. Their morals have been so twisted and so lost in the dogma of religion, to the point that they cannot tell right from wrong.
9. If you don't believe in a specific god, what is your point to life? What is there to live for?
Answer: The universe is vast. Have you seen the pictures from the Hubble telescope? It's extremely complex, and there's a certain beauty; a beauty from the entropy, the clutter. Looking at people, how they behave, why the behave... for example, why you choose to believe in bullshit-- I find that interesting. Frustrating when people fall short of rational thought, but always cheering on for people to think for themselves. With that in mind, from all the wonders of the sky, do I give two shits about a burning bush? No. We have microscopes now that can literally see molecular bonds, peering into the world at a previously unprecedented scale, to understand the world of quantum mechanics and chaos, and the beauty and mysterious stemming from that chaos. Also the idea is fundamentally flawed, that if I die, all things mean nothing. Some argue that what I've done to my loved ones, the time I've spent and the impact I've imparted on them is quite literally priceless. But to think that everything means nothing because everything that has a beginning has an end... that in itself is dumb. By that logic, all of your experiences amount to nothing because they've past. No, by the time I've died, I've had so many experiences, so many surprises, so much love, hate, jealousy, friendships, knowledge, to the point that I know my life has been lived to its maximum. The material things I've possessed over the span of my lifetime may be immense, but nobody can take away my experiences and my legacy lives through the people I've touched.
The world is so interesting, so infinite, so grand. Why do I need a book to tell me how I should live my life? The sublime beauty of the universe outshines any and all works by man - the bible, the Qu'ran, etc. Dare I ask for more? So when people ask me why I find a purpose to life being an agnostic, I go back to my point: The world is beautiful.
10. If science keeps changing all the time, it has no meaning and cannot predict things with 100% certainty. The universe is so amazing, there must be a designer.
Answer: And a book is the word of god, THAT has absolute certainty? You cannot say anything is 100% this or that because there is always a possibility of error. That's the difference. Scientists are not afraid to admit they were wrong and to question things, whereas religious leaders assert this way is the right way because they argue from authority, not truth. By your logic, nothing is for certain, therefore nothing in the entire world means anything because it is not certain. You cannot give an exception to 'god' because it feels nice to do so. Because answers change, it doesn't mean all other answers are equally as valid.
Now, you claim that the universe is so amazing it must have a designer, and because we cannot figure the precise details of every single thing related to the start of this universe, god must exist. That's an argument from ignorance. It's logically and fundamentally flawed. You can say 'this looks like it is designed. Therefore, it must be god', where we have evidence about how old the universe is, and you're dismissing that. You can't have it both ways. You require evidence, or you do not. If you do, you lose, If you don't, then you don't care for reason and you are deluded.
11. What about Pascal's wager? Religion hasn't done any harm, it makes people better.
Answer: Pascal's wager forgets the fact that all other religion have their own gods. So if every religion has equal chance of being real, picking one is like trying to win the lottery. (A non-existent lottery.) In just Christianity alone, there are over 300 major divisions of Christianity. Another fundamental flaw with Pascal's wager is the assumption that worshiping a god, you lose nothing if god isn't real. If god isn't real, you don't go into heaven or hell. Your time is limited, and you've wasted it praying for a non-existent god. Also, if you believe in a god because of the Pascal's wager, it's not real belief or worship, Therefore, you're still going to hell. Think about it. If god were omniscient, wouldn't god recognize the real reason for your faith? How about this, let's start an Atheist's Wager. Treat people nicely and try to make the world a better place because you are a good person. When you die, if there is a god, god isn't stupid enough to send you to eternal torment because god knows you've been a good person.
12. But I've felt god! I've seen miracles!
Answer: The human mind is prone to hallucinations. Try to convince a schizophrenic that their hallucinations are hallucinations. I've tried. It's futile. Also, 'I've felt it' isn't proof. Why the hell should I believe YOU because you said you felt something? It's questionable as to why coming back from the brink of death is an act of god. Again, there's no evidence to prove that, and to say that I don't have proof is an argument from ignorance. Burden of proof rests on the guy making the claim that God had offspring through a virgin girl, who later on came to heal people and do crazy shit, died, and got resurrected 3 days later. It's also funny to see people miss the fact that god apperently cures cancer. But never amputated limbs. Why? Because the second would actually require divine intervention, the first would not. Here's a thought for you. Why is it that when you are sick, you go to the doctor and use the technology brought about from science, yet when it comes to the origins of the universe, you use 'faith'? Why don't you 'faith' away your problems? Why doesn't god cure amputees, but cure cancer patients?
Do I need to disprove somebody that Bigfoot is real? NO. If you think bigfoot is real, you need to prove to me that bigfoot is real. I don't have to do a thing. I donj't need to disprove every religion ever constructed and will be constructed. They need to prove they are the real deal.
13. It takes faith to believe in scientific evidence. Atheism is just a religion.
Answer: Atheism isn't a religion.
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
Atheism is the exact opposite: NOT believing and NOT worshiping a superhuman controlling power. How people manage to confuse that is honestly beyond me. Atheism is not an institution; we are not unified in beliefs other than that god doesn't exist. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, atheism is a word that shouldn't even exist. Replace religion with anything else. Take astrologers. We don't have a word for 'not astrologers'. People that are not astrologers don't wake up reminding themselves that they are not astrologers. Religion is to atheism as abstinence is to sex position, and not smoking is to habit. They are contradictory. By literal English definiton, both cannot be true. One cannot be atheist and believe in any sort of religion whatsoever.
To deny that would be foolish.
Atheism has no dogma; saying that the 'dogma' is the fact that we don't believe god exists isn't dogma, that's the friggin' definition. There are no tenants of universal truths tied to atheism. One can believe or not believe in evolution and be an atheist.
A scientific theory is not a vague guess, it is a framework that fits the evidence and predicts future events/outcomes. It is tested and if it proves to be accurate it is accepted, if new evidence comes to light then the theory is changed/adjusted/rejected accordingly.
14. If your life is going to be over, why bother living?
Answer: Why have sex with a pretty girl if it's going to be over soon? Why watch a movie when it'll be done in an hour or two? Why live life? Because living now is better than dying. I know my time is limited, that's just all the more reason to enjoy my life.
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Being religious, you claim to know what god thinks and believes; an extremely arrogant and ignorant claim. In fact, nations that are more religious tend to have lower average IQ and be more poor. That's a statistical fact. Science and religion are from two different time periods. Science emerged about 2000 years after all that religion nonsense. Just by the time gap, there cannot be any science in religion. In a roundabout way, religion was science of the past, because it was used to explain everything before we had any clue how the world worked. Religion is a relic of the past. Like slavery. And you know what, if the idea of a space daddy that ends up torturing most of the world, billions of people, spreads the gospel of raping women, sexism, racism, slavery, and murder gives you life, then here is my reply: FIND A BETTER FUCKING REASON TO LIVE. Replace it with something that makes more sense.
Here is what religious people have to do to win the debate:
1) Prove Evolution is incorrect (Not an easy feat, since every scientist in the world agrees it's real; not a single argument has been made that disproves evolution, and the claims are always made by non-biologists; in fact, simply looking at tree rings, we know that the world is over 6,000 years old.)
2) Prove the world is designed (Not an easy thing to do, because if the world is designed, everything is designed, making it impossible to know it is designed; you know a painting is designed because you know painters paint paintings, you've seen it before; I've yet to see god make another universe. Instead of a painting in a room, you have a painting in a sea of paintings, and there's no relative comparison. While we've seen paintings made by people millions of times, same cannot be said for the universe being made. You cannot jump to 'universe didn't create itself' because nobody said the universe was created nor designed. You cannot say the universe is too orderly, when in fact the world is chaotic and entropy rules; sand dunes look orderly but are not designed.)
3) Prove that God exists (Impossible)
4) Prove that YOUR god is the REAL god
Burden of Proof
The default position is to look at the world we know of, and to not believe. Everything is false until proven or a reason is given. If my friend says he bought a dog, I can believe that because the claim isn't fantastic and I know from past experiences that he doesn't lie. If we discover a new piece of land on earth, we can assume there is life, because previously we've found out that life exists everywhere on earth. But if we're talking about god, god is a major claim about biology, chemistry, cosmology, and philosophy. The amount of proof needs to reflect the magnitude of the claim. I have yet to see a god make a universe. Atheists have no dogma tied, it states nothing about the origin of the universe. All it states is that, there is no god. The end. That's all. Atheists don't need to PROVE that all religions ever constructed are false; they are also not required to prove your religion is false. All religious people are atheists with respect to other religions, they just think their's happen to be right. (And if you were born somewhere else on the globe, you'd be saying the same thing for a different religion) You also can't say that Atheists are claiming that there is a world without a god. You can't take the contra-positive of the statement "Theists believe that we have a universe with a god" and assume that's true. The default stance in anything, not just religion is one of not believing. Do you believe in the spaghetti monster? No. The default position is to not accept any claim without any sort of evidence.
Until you fulfill all of that, in that order, you have not proven religion.
And no, 'eye witnesses' do not count. They were all mentally ill, poor, hysterical, uneducated people. And after that we have accounts told, past on from person to person many, many times. Where, a rational person would ask themselves if they themselves were having hallucinations, if they saw what happened with their own eyes. What does Christianity say? Those laws of natures can be suspended. And in your favor if you say the right prayers and believe in the right gods.
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If we get hit on your head, we forget faces.
If we get nicked during brain surgery, we forget English.
Somehow, when we lose our entire fucking brain, our 'spirit' lifts from our body, and we go to heaven, speaking English and recognizing grandma.
Everything about who we are, our memories, hopes, dreams, etc are all the product of something physical going on inside out heads.
There isn't my logic or your logic. There is only one correct logic. There is only one correct answer. Don't believe because you want to believe. That's called being weak. Faith is gullibility. It is the surrender to reason and everything that separates us from other animals. Nowhere else is this kind of logic allowed, only in religion.
Religion affects people and their actions. You will vote based on what you believe; you will not agree on abortion, for example. It limits how you look at the world and your options. You don't live in a vacuum.
If you want to disprove evolution, don't even try if you think we came from monkeys or apes, that cats came from dogs, or 'show me the transitional fossils'. That demonstrates a fundamental flaw in your understanding of evolution, and pelase don't reproduce and spread on your stupid genes.
But most of all...
Last edited by Dark_wizzie on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:58 am; edited 40 times in total