Wolf3d Haven Forum

Please log in or register. Smile
Wolf3d Haven Forum

A friendly Wolfenstein 3D community, about Wolfenstein 3D, the game that gave birth to first person shooters...


    an experimental project

    Share

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    an experimental project

    Post by mar on Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:48 pm

    Hi guys,
    here's my experimental project I worked on recently. It's not wolf, it's... an unfinished experiment.
    I would like to know your opinions, thanks for your time.
    Download link is here (see readme.txt for details); note that it requires OpenGL and a GPU (Intel GMA will do)
    http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?do5vl1vrbpm19ts
    Screenshot:

    doomjedi
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1337
    Age : 38
    Location : Israel
    Hobbie : Gaming and Modding, Pixel Art
    Registration date : 2007-03-26

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:02 am

    Looks very interesting....3D models etc...PNG support...Step sounds... Smile
    Did you make it from scratch?

    Why are textures only 32x32? This is almost "MineCraft" Smile

    Dark_wizzie
    I am Death Incarnate!
    I am Death Incarnate!

    Male
    Number of posts : 5090
    Age : 22
    Location : USA or Tawain
    Job : Student, Part time Cactuar fanatic
    Hobbie : Planting Cactuars.
    Message : I made this forum when I was 13 High on Drugs
    Registration date : 2007-03-24

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:11 am

    At first it looked like advanced Wolf3d, then I saw the textures, which kind of threw things off a little.



    Wolf3d Haven
    Minute Logic Blog

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:33 am

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Yes it was written from scratch, it has many benefits like not being restricted by GPL.
    The textures are lowres and ugly simply because i made them myself. I'm a coder, not an artist.

    doomjedi
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1337
    Age : 38
    Location : Israel
    Hobbie : Gaming and Modding, Pixel Art
    Registration date : 2007-03-26

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:28 am

    @mar wrote:Thanks for the feedback.

    Yes it was written from scratch, it has many benefits like not being restricted by GPL.
    That's why I asked Smile
    Potential for commercial project Smile

    The textures are lowres and ugly simply because i made them myself. I'm a coder, not an artist.
    So you mean that the engine recognizes any resolution of texture? Hi-res textures?

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:08 am

    @doomjedi wrote:
    That's why I asked Smile
    Potential for commercial project Smile
    Yes it already runs on my iPhone as well. But there's still much work to be done.
    However, the editor (despite the fact that it's a bit clumsy and undocumented) is already usable.
    Of course you can't impress anyone today with this 20-years old tech.
    So a potentially commercial project would have to beat it on gameplay part. Which isn't easy at all, good ideas
    are rare.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    So you mean that the engine recognizes any resolution of texture? Hi-res textures?
    As long as they are square and power of two, yes. You can even mix textures of different resolutions.
    But I wouldn't go above 256x256. Texture memory can be a problem. There's problem
    with texture compression on mobile devices because OES doesn't support on-the-fly compression
    and PVRTC looks really ugly on non-blurry textures. So I prefer original art in lossless png with alpha channel
    where every pixel looks the way it should.


    doomjedi
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1337
    Age : 38
    Location : Israel
    Hobbie : Gaming and Modding, Pixel Art
    Registration date : 2007-03-26

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:45 am

    Such 3D engines are not good for iphone because of the uncomfortable controls.
    I'd suggest to choose a non-mobile direction.

    Seeing your skills - it's a pity you don't have a Wolf3D mod in development.
    (our team can use such a coder)

    But I can understand you, to make your own engine, from ground zero, you can make it as unique as you want, not just a shooter. Especially as it can get you real money later on. Make a good engine - great ideas we'll come. We're very creative community.


    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:46 am

    @doomjedi wrote:Such 3D engines are not good for iphone because of the uncomfortable controls.
    I'd suggest to choose a non-mobile direction.
    Yes you're right. There are two main problems when developing for mobiles: first is controls,
    in fact I haven't seen a single 3D FPS with really good controls. Another is performance.
    Everything is slow like hell on a phone and has to be optimized to the max if you want smooth
    gameplay.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Seeing your skills - it's a pity you don't have a Wolf3D mod in development.
    (our team can use such a coder)
    Thanks, I can say the same about your skills as I said earlier in general. I can't start a mod myself as I'm just a coder.
    The only problem is free time and side projects but it depends
    on the difficulty of the tasks that would need to be done. I could give it a try though, if you really want
    you can send me a mail to k_mar at seznam.cz and we'll see how/if I could be of any help to you.
    Perhaps one day I could convince you to try to make something which would go beyond Wolf3d modding,
    I believe your team has a lot of creative potential Wink

    @doomjedi wrote:
    But I can understand you, to make your own engine, from ground zero, you can make it as unique as you want, not just a shooter. Especially as it can get you real money later on. Make a good engine - great ideas will come. We're very creative community.
    Well I certainly can't write anything competitive with today's engines. My limit is somewhere around quake2/quake3 and half-life1 (no multiplayer, only simple fake physics).
    In fact, I already have a semi-working engine with true 3d environments, precomputed visibility, lightmaps and basic collisions.
    Visual quality is pretty good and performance is much better than this wolf-like experiment [but that depends on map size of course]. It's far from finished though. And I doubt
    I could make money with an engine itself, which would be comparable to 1999 tech.
    As for making money: that would be cool. I wanted to make games since I was 12. But not as an employee Smile Unfortunately making money is hard.
    However now that we have digital stores like Steam, GOG and others, I believe there're some possibilities left yet...

    doomjedi
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1337
    Age : 38
    Location : Israel
    Hobbie : Gaming and Modding, Pixel Art
    Registration date : 2007-03-26

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:08 am

    @mar wrote:
    Yes you're right. There are two main problems when developing for mobiles: first is controls,
    in fact I haven't seen a single 3D FPS with really good controls. Another is performance.
    I think you need to make iphone/mobile apps, but not 3D-ones. Physical Puzzlers, utility apps etc....I have been privately developing lately some amazing ideas for such (part of my plan to get eventually rich Smile- as soon as I'll find a person/company to take them further)- if you will take it seriously - I might be able to share some with you...and help you in general idea-wise.
    But I think a coder is not enouph - we need a business man/manager with a business plan and skills - and financial supporter.

    Thanks, I can say the same about your skills as I said earlier in general.

    Thanks Smile (you probably mean my art skills)

    I can't start a mod myself as I'm just a coder.
    OK....but that doesn't answer a question why can't you just join a modding team that already has mappers, spriters, sound artists, and a selection of great mods in development (just like "Team RayCast" does) - which only await for a coder (we have a coder, LinuxWolf - but too many projects for one coder to advance in parallel, and so our "main" project is stalled meantime (with art made, most of coding made....etc) and so are some other).

    I could give it a try though, if you really want
    Don't make it look like I'm begging you.
    Yes, I'm interested in additional coder for our team. But I want people to join the Team because they want it, and not because someone else really wanted them to.
    I don't need "favours". I "like mutual interest in cooperation" Smile

    you can send me a mail to k_mar at seznam.cz and we'll see how/if I could be of any help to you.
    Why can't we PM each other on this forum? Also I can PM you a link to our dev. forum if you're seriously considering joining the team and want to discuss it further with the it. But what we are doing - is free non-commercial Wolf3D modding, just to let you know, expectation-wise.
    Obviously there is a balance of what I can or cannot reveal to a not-yet-teammember "candidate" regarding our projects and planned/needed features, so I hope we can find a common ground....what exactly you need to know to make a decision?
    The projects in general are very advanced Wolf4SDL-engine mods.
    I guess I can describe you (over PM) the main requirements in general words, without too-revealing details - but enouph to describe it's level of complexity.
    Also projects are dynamic, and some more features can be added later.

    Perhaps one day I could convince you to try to make something which would go beyond Wolf3d modding,
    I believe your team has a lot of creative potential Wink
    Well, in relation to "beyond Wolf3D modding" - I don't plan "free" Doom modding or Duke modding, for a free modding - Wolf3D does the job for me, more creativity - faster development, simple engine....but I do want to get rich, from ideas, games, apps, inventions...whatever. Commercial project with a chance for some real cash/success is an interesting direction. I have creativity/brain that is worth a few millions at least IMO. I'm creative, intelligent, experienced, good work ethics and teamwork, plenty of free time...Brains for hire Smile
    So I'm ready for offers, can't talk for the rest of the team - but probably most of the team will be interested in such as well.

    Well I certainly can't write anything competitive with today's engines. My limit is somewhere around quake2/quake3 and half-life1 (no multiplayer, only simple fake physics).
    It's not the engine, it's the idea behind it, the gameplay, the possiblities...I saw some simple but great games, and some "advanced" but crappy "fails".
    Especially for mobile apps, but not only.
    There are some indie (independent)-game makers that made it big, big money - out of simple games engine-wise, but with great ideas. I saw a whole documentary on those.
    And the more you code - the better/capable you become. It's the same in every area.

    In fact, I already have a semi-working engine with true 3d environments, precomputed visibility, lightmaps and basic collisions.
    Sounds interesting....gotta do some "brainstorming" on that to see where one can take it... Everything has alot of potential if you put your faith, time, heart and mind to it. It's there, one has to see it...

    As for making money: that would be cool. I wanted to make games since I was 12.
    Me to. Started making games at 12-13. Long before there were comps - board games, card games......

    But not as an employee :
    Yeah...I hate it too...I want to make my own ideas....and my creativity doesn't work from 8:00 to 17:00....it has it's own pace, time....


    Unfortunately making money is hard.
    Agree.

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:50 am

    @doomjedi wrote:
    I think you need to make iphone/mobile apps, but not 3D-ones. Physical Puzzlers, utility apps etc....I have been privately developing lately some amazing ideas for such (part of my plan to get eventually rich Smile- as soon as I'll find a person/company to take them further)- if you will take it seriously - I might be able to share some with you...and help you in general idea-wise.
    But I think a coder is not enouph - we need a business man/manager with a business plan and skills - and financial supporter.
    Sounds interesting. Yes I've been thinking the same myself. The problem is that we never found someone with enough artistic skill and/or enthusiasm. I have a basic framework for 2d games ready
    as well. Of course ideas are very important. From what I can say, the most important thing is marketing. Without it you simply sell nothing (verified with 3 games/apps).

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Thanks Smile (you probably mean my art skills)
    Of course what else Smile

    @doomjedi wrote:
    OK....but that doesn't answer a question why can't you just join a modding team that already has mappers, spriters, sound artists, and a selection of great mods in development (just like "Team RayCast" does) - which only await for a coder (we have a coder, LinuxWolf - but too many projects for one coder to advance in parallel, and so our "main" project is stalled meantime (with art made, most of coding made....etc) and so are some other).

    Don't make it look like I'm begging you.
    Yes, I'm interested in additional coder for our team. But I want people to join the Team because they want it, and not because someone else really wanted them to.
    I don't need "favours". I "like mutual interest in cooperation" Smile
    Well ok why not. It's not that you would be begging, don't get me wrong. Coders are no gods (at least I don't consider myself one).
    In fact it was me who was begging artists to make at least a stupid shaded rectangular grid for one of my projects Smile (and had to wait 6 months for that)
    This is also not a favor. I said that I prefer doing my own stuff, which doesn't mean I can't do both.
    You said something like "we could use a coder", which I consider an offer. Fair enough. I think it may be fun.
    That's why I asked about the amount of work necessary.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Why can't we PM each other on this forum? Also I can PM you a link to our dev. forum if you're seriously considering joining the team and want to discuss it further with the it. But what we are doing - is free non-commercial Wolf3D modding, just to let you know, expectation-wise.
    Obviously there is a balance of what I can or cannot reveal to a not-yet-teammember "candidate" regarding our projects and planned/needed features, so I hope we can find a common ground....what exactly you need to know to make a decision?
    The projects in general are very advanced Wolf4SDL-engine mods.
    I guess I can describe you (over PM) the main requirements in general words, without too-revealing details - but enouph to describe it's level of complexity.
    Also projects are dynamic, and some more features can be added later.
    Ok will do.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Well, in relation to "beyond Wolf3D modding" - I don't plan "free" Doom modding or Duke modding, for a free modding - Wolf3D does the job for me, more creativity - faster development, simple engine....but I do want to get rich, from ideas, games, apps, inventions...whatever. Commercial project with a chance for some real cash/success is an interesting direction. I have creativity/brain that is worth a few millions at least IMO. I'm creative, intelligent, experienced, good work ethics and teamwork, plenty of free time...Brains for hire Smile
    So I'm ready for offers, can't talk for the rest of the team - but probably most of the team will be interested in such as well.
    Even more interesting.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    It's not the engine, it's the idea behind it, the gameplay, the possiblities...I saw some simple but great games, and some "advanced" but crappy "fails".
    Especially for mobile apps, but not only.
    There are some indie (independent)-game makers that made it big, big money - out of simple games engine-wise, but with great ideas. I saw a whole documentary on those.
    And the more you code - the better/capable you become. It's the same in every area.
    Yes you're right. I have seen many fails myself too. In fact more fails than successes, which I guess is normal.
    Indies are really cool, I think this is the way to go. The guy who wrote Minecraft earned $40M so far IIRC, which is not bad,
    more than I would earn in several thousand years with my current job. Of course this is one in a billion.

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Sounds interesting....gotta do some "brainstorming" on that to see where one can take it... Everything has alot of potential if you put your faith, time, heart and mind to it. It's there, one has to see it...
    No problem Smile

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Me to. Started making games at 12-13. Long before there were comps - board games, card games......

    Yeah...I hate it too...I want to make my own ideas....and my creativity doesn't work from 8:00 to 17:00....it has it's own pace, time....
    Yes I started in the 8-bit era.

    Ok I guess we should move to PMs from now on.

    Tragos2d
    Bring em' On!
    Bring em' On!

    Male
    Number of posts : 140
    Age : 117
    Job : Pouring gasoline on fires.
    Hobbie : Talent is so unpopular...
    Registration date : 2011-07-06

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Tragos2d on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:34 am

    Wow this looks a lot like this: http://revert3d.blogspot.com/http://revert3d.blogspot.com/

    I am considering revert3d for future projects but it lacks the charm of raycasting. I didn't read over this entire post, what did you use to code your engine?

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:51 am

    @Tragos2d wrote:Wow this looks a lot like this: http://revert3d.blogspot.com/http://revert3d.blogspot.com/

    I am considering revert3d for future projects but it lacks the charm of raycasting. I didn't read over this entire post, what did you use to code your engine?
    Looks really nice, Revert3d seems much more advanced.

    I used C++ (and Visual Studio 2008 Express as IDE)

    doomjedi
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1337
    Age : 38
    Location : Israel
    Hobbie : Gaming and Modding, Pixel Art
    Registration date : 2007-03-26

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:14 am

    @mar wrote:. From what I can say, the most important thing is marketing. Without it you simply sell nothing (verified with 3 games/apps).
    Oh, you already released apps? Which ones?
    Interesting Smile


    Indies are really cool, I think this is the way to go. The guy who wrote Minecraft earned $40M so far IIRC, which is not bad,
    I wanted to mention "MineCraft" directly in my post - but scrapped it as it's a multiplayer game, and that's (from your words) beyond your capability.
    ..

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:44 am

    @doomjedi wrote:
    Oh, you already released apps? Which ones?
    Interesting Smile
    Well not that interesting I would say. Just unsuccessful attempts Smile

    This was the first one, a game we used to play in school on squared paper,
    I wrote a simple alpha-beta searcher for AI:
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tactical-soccer/id445292094?mt=8
    Of course one idiot gave 1 star because he couldn't run it.

    Second was chess, with my own chess engine for AI:
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chessfortress/id477042802?mt=8

    Third was just a lousy attempt to test iAds, uses infinite precision rational numbers in matrices:
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/exact-matrix-solver/id482421349?mt=8
    Of course again an idiot who doesn't understand what reduced row echelon form means gave 1 star Smile

    So that's three apps and $200+ earned. We're rich Smile Not to mention that you have to pay Apple $100/year.
    The problem is that without marketing you only sell first two days while it's in new apps, that's the only
    ad you get. Of course there are around 600k+ apps on the appstore so it's always hard to find them.

    @doomjedi wrote:I wanted to mention "MineCraft" directly in my post - but scrapped it as it's a multiplayer game, and that's (from your words) beyond your capability.
    ..
    Yes it's both beyond my interest (well not really I loved to play Quake 3) and capabilities.
    The least problem is sending packets. Of course you have to use UDP, which means you have to handle
    reliability manually. The packets can be either lost or come out of order, you have to be prepared for that.
    The most problematic things are synchronization (prediction and smoothing) and latency compensation in general,
    diff-based state management to send only incremental information from server back to client,
    not flooding the connection and of course much more problems. It's hard to test multiplayer with 1 computer
    and no public IP address. Last time I tested with a friend of mine via Hamachi I was unable to compensate for the insane lag. And that were only two players sending direct position and rotation. Later he told me that he was
    torrenting a few movies while we were testing so ... no comment Smile Since then I made no attempts at multiplayer Smile
    Minecraft is even more complicated as it's massively multiplayer.

    Tragos2d
    Bring em' On!
    Bring em' On!

    Male
    Number of posts : 140
    Age : 117
    Job : Pouring gasoline on fires.
    Hobbie : Talent is so unpopular...
    Registration date : 2011-07-06

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Tragos2d on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:00 pm

    If 20 year old tech didn't still impress people then Nintendo would be out of business. Nintendo games are very simplistic and rarely deviate from any of their past successes. You also wouldn't see any 2d titles being made. It's not so much about impressing people but making a fun and enjoyable game that people will want to play. (and pay for)

    I will never like push button gameplay, hand holding, arcade style ballistics in military shooters, or silly achievements but if you want to make your game appeal to slack jawed kiddies you might just have to add some of that crap in. Unless you're trying to appeal to a more mature audience? Smile

    Minecraft is a love/hate thing with me. The concept is beautiful but the game itself is so buggy and unpolished its borderline idiocy. Just because you can do something with Java doesn't mean you should. I like the simplistic graphics they are cute but it's almost like they had to make the graphics 8bit style because unless you have a super computer the engine will choke on itself. Simply put they either wanted cute graphics or the artist was just lazy? I would have to bank on the fact that Java is terrible for a 3d game. Which is why the world of blocks works for Minecraft because it's a perfect example of form following function.

    Any chance we could see some of your code? Currently I am involved learning C++ using DevC and Visual Studio 2010.

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:44 am

    @Tragos2d wrote:If 20 year old tech didn't still impress people then Nintendo would be out of business. Nintendo games are very simplistic and rarely deviate from any of their past successes. You also wouldn't see any 2d titles being made. It's not so much about impressing people but making a fun and enjoyable game that people will want to play. (and pay for)
    Well tech doesn't necessarily mean game. And there's a difference between "impress people" and being fun to play Smile


    I will never like push button gameplay, hand holding, arcade style ballistics in military shooters, or silly achievements but if you want to make your game appeal to slack jawed kiddies you might just have to add some of that crap in. Unless you're trying to appeal to a more mature audience? Smile
    Well the days of hardcore gamers are probably gone. The market has shifted to casual gamers.
    I don't like either how games evolved over the years, but I'm happy that indie games are gaining
    popularity in the past years because AAA games today are usually total **** despite being technologically advanced.


    Minecraft is a love/hate thing with me. The concept is beautiful but the game itself is so buggy and unpolished its borderline idiocy. Just because you can do something with Java doesn't mean you should. I like the simplistic graphics they are cute but it's almost like they had to make the graphics 8bit style because unless you have a super computer the engine will choke on itself. Simply put they either wanted cute graphics or the artist was just lazy? I would have to bank on the fact that Java is terrible for a 3d game. Which is why the world of blocks works for Minecraft because it's a perfect example of form following function.
    Well I have to admit I never played Minecraft myself. Java certainly isn't bad but performance wise it's no match
    for native C/C++. However it usually depends on programmer's skills what he can do, not on the programming laguage
    he uses. I would say they used low-res style for numerous reasons: minimalistic style
    (also doing art for that will not cost you millions and you don't spend years on that), as you said memory requirements
    and of course if you want people to create their own textures it has to be lowres as it's much easier for them.
    Well I assume Minecraft uses huge voxel grids/octrees that are fully dynamic so that means many many cubes,
    that's why you need fast hardware. They have to solve visibility somehow so I guess they use frustum culling + occlusion querries because you can't precompute vis for a fully dynamic world.


    Any chance we could see some of your code? Currently I am involved learning C++ using DevC and Visual Studio 2010.
    I don't plan to release any of my code atm. My style is not super-cool anyway.
    But there are tons of very well written open-source programs everywhere on the web.
    If you are learning C++ I would recommend reading some books first, there should be many
    available online and for free.

    EDIT: if you want to see some of my (old) code, you can try this project: http://sourceforge.net/projects/c00ngl/
    It's a simple sw rasterizer but it was written in plain C back then.

    Tragos2d
    Bring em' On!
    Bring em' On!

    Male
    Number of posts : 140
    Age : 117
    Job : Pouring gasoline on fires.
    Hobbie : Talent is so unpopular...
    Registration date : 2011-07-06

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Tragos2d on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:37 am

    When I mentioned 20 year tech I meant that Nintendo with their little Wii is no more advanced than what was pioneered in VR technology of the late 1980's and mid 1990's. However it didn't catch on much during that time and the price was way far beyond what the average consumer could afford. Heck they had full head tracking systems running on machines less than 100 mhz back then! Of course overall the technology has benefited greatly from advances in processing power but even the design of Nintendo games has not evolved with the times. I expected by this time to have full immersion technology built into a game console, but apparently we are still a long way off from seeing such technology in consumer homes?

    I'm glad the indie scene is strong. It offers hope to the rest of us that prefer quality over quantity. Not only that who can afford $60 a game? Digital Delivery is another scourge upon the industry. Services should not be forced upon customers who are only interested in gaming.

    Both Zomboid and Minecraft are excellent examples of what Java can do. Zomboid is VERY ADDICTIVE!
    http://projectzomboid.com/blog/

    However they also showcase the language's weaknesses. It is not well suited for serious game development. Minecraft if it was programed in C++ would run a thousand times more efficiency. Zomboid suffers from long load times and stability issues but its a massive game.

    Years before Minecraft this came out:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txupxmx-xFE

    Doom at it's core is best suited for boxy or squarish architecture. This is why the 8bit style suited the design of the game Megaman 8bit deathmatch. With Minecraft the authors had a decent engine but what do you do with something that is only good a rendering a large amount of blocks? The point I was making is that the art style was dictated by the limitations of the engine.


    Basically this is Minecraft but from an isometric perspective:

    Schiffbruch
    http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/schiffbruch


    Everything comes from something. Now a something truly original would be special indeed.


    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:16 am

    Sorry for the late reply:
    @Tragos2d wrote:
    I'm glad the indie scene is strong. It offers hope to the rest of us that prefer quality over quantity.
    Me too.


    Both Zomboid and Minecraft are excellent examples of what Java can do. Zomboid is VERY ADDICTIVE!
    http://projectzomboid.com/blog/
    Will take a look once I have some more time, thanks for the link.


    Minecraft if it was programed in C++ would run a thousand times more efficiency.
    I'm not quite sure. Minecraft depends on the GPU which does most of the rendering job. Anyway Java will run
    say 2x slower than C++ code (which is amazing considering that it does JIT), but it really depends
    on what you're doing. Programming language and algorithms used are usually two distinct things.
    One can write terribly slow code in C++, so in general it depends Smile


    Everything comes from something. Now a something truly original would be special indeed.
    Yes everyhting has probably already been invented and tried before. Most ideas come from 8-bit era (or even before that).

    mmed
    Don't Hurt Me!
    Don't Hurt Me!

    Male
    Number of posts : 52
    Age : 22
    Registration date : 2012-07-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mmed on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:05 pm

    The bad thing is that people always waste a 3d engine... Dead

    Tragos2d
    Bring em' On!
    Bring em' On!

    Male
    Number of posts : 140
    Age : 117
    Job : Pouring gasoline on fires.
    Hobbie : Talent is so unpopular...
    Registration date : 2011-07-06

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Tragos2d on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:32 pm

    The engine runs but I am presented with the following:

    any ideas?

    Positive note: This runs very fast and smooth!

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:45 pm

    Looks like a bug/driver problem. So far I tested on old Intel GMA and some old nVidia without problems.
    What it your configuration? (System/GPU)

    Tragos2d
    Bring em' On!
    Bring em' On!

    Male
    Number of posts : 140
    Age : 117
    Job : Pouring gasoline on fires.
    Hobbie : Talent is so unpopular...
    Registration date : 2011-07-06

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Tragos2d on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:47 am

    My old-school raycast gaming/programming rig is as follows:

    3.4 Intel P4
    2 Gigs Ram
    128mb PCI Geforce 5500 MX
    XP PRO SP3

    The system has a PCI Express slot but believe it or not this old card refuses to die and handles everything I need.
    I have seen issues like this more common in ATI cards at least in my experience.

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:54 am

    @Tragos2d wrote:My old-school raycast gaming/programming rig is as follows:

    3.4 Intel P4
    2 Gigs Ram
    128mb PCI Geforce 5500 MX
    XP PRO SP3

    The system has a PCI Express slot but believe it or not this old card refuses to die and handles everything I need.
    I have seen issues like this more common in ATI cards at least in my experience.
    From what I've read NVIDIA no longer supports GeForce FX drivers, so hard to say.
    I just made a build with VBOs disabled, perhaps it helps.
    The link is here: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dkml29y8nq8ytlk
    Please let me know if it worked.

    stathmk
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1403
    Age : 36
    Location : Indiana, United States
    Job : fast food worker & wolfensteingoodies.com webmaster
    Hobbie : old games & young dames
    Registration date : 2008-04-08

    Re: Revert 3D and an experimental project

    Post by stathmk on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:12 pm

    @mar wrote:...http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?do5vl1vrbpm19ts...
    Ill play it and host it onto wolfensteingoodies.com this month or next unless you type that I dont have your permission.

    @Tragos2d wrote:Wow this looks a lot like this: http://revert3d.blogspot.com/http://revert3d.blogspot.com/

    I am considering revert3d for future projects but it lacks the charm of raycasting. I didn't read over this entire post, what did you use to code your engine?
    I wish that somebody would make episode 1 level 1 of Wolfenstein 3D and level 1 of The Spear of Destiny using this program.

    DoomJedi, Ill post Splitwolf and Batman VS Bane onto wolfensteingoodies.com in the next few weeks unless you tell me that I dont have your permission.

    Dark_wizzie
    I am Death Incarnate!
    I am Death Incarnate!

    Male
    Number of posts : 5090
    Age : 22
    Location : USA or Tawain
    Job : Student, Part time Cactuar fanatic
    Hobbie : Planting Cactuars.
    Message : I made this forum when I was 13 High on Drugs
    Registration date : 2007-03-24

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:20 pm

    @mar wrote:
    From what I've read NVIDIA no longer supports GeForce FX drivers, so hard to say.

    Because the cards are so old. Eventually my SLI 8800gt's will be dropped as well.



    Wolf3d Haven
    Minute Logic Blog

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:20 am

    @stathmk wrote:
    @mar wrote:...http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?do5vl1vrbpm19ts...
    Ill play it and host it onto wolfensteingoodies.com this month or next unless you type that I dont have your permission.
    Please bear in mind that it's unfinished and it's a tech demo, not a game.
    So if you want to host it despite these facts, I don't mind.

    doomjedi
    Hardcore Wolfer
    Hardcore Wolfer

    Male
    Number of posts : 1337
    Age : 38
    Location : Israel
    Hobbie : Gaming and Modding, Pixel Art
    Registration date : 2007-03-26

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by doomjedi on Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:46 am

    @stathmk wrote:
    DoomJedi, Ill post Splitwolf and Batman VS Bane onto wolfensteingoodies.com in the next few weeks unless you tell me that I dont have your permission.
    Sure, why not? Smile

    BTW I might consider using this opportunity sending you a more updated BvsB package with some fixes and improvements.
    The same can go for SplitWolf, with the "missing frame" fixed.

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:01 pm

    Hi guys, my experimental project has been cancelled, it's time to move on.
    iOS projects were cancelled too due to (again) incompetence of artists - Epic fail number x.
    I wonder when people will finally realize that making games is very hard work
    (respect to each finished project).
    So I worked a bit on my (unfinished) engine in the meantime, there's still TONS of work but...
    here are the preliminary results.
    Note that this is not based on anything (from scratch as usual).
    The simple scene was completely modeled in c00nsolid - my editor.

    Engine images (note that originally this is Intel GMA 945 in 1280x1024):
    (textures are from cgtextures.com)



    Editor image:


    Engine specs:
    fully 3d
    hw-only (OpenGL)
    precomputed visibility + frustum culling
    raytraced lightmaps with optional (not very good looking) radiosity
    dynamic plane shifting bsp collisions (very fast - for those interested google Melax's paper)
    (unfortunately collision response still sucks and needs to be rewritten)

    Editor specs:
    powered by Qt (forget about other GUI frameworks, I mean it - it's awesome:)
    box/cone/cylinder primitives
    resize/rotate
    poly builder: 2d shape tesselated into solids
    100-level full undo/redo buffer
    copy/cut/paste
    CSG operations on solids (subtract, merge, intersect, convex hull)
    clipping
    texture browser, very simple surface and entity props
    vertex/edge editing
    multiple maps can be opened/edited at once

    It will probably never power a game but who cares Smile

    Dark_wizzie
    I am Death Incarnate!
    I am Death Incarnate!

    Male
    Number of posts : 5090
    Age : 22
    Location : USA or Tawain
    Job : Student, Part time Cactuar fanatic
    Hobbie : Planting Cactuars.
    Message : I made this forum when I was 13 High on Drugs
    Registration date : 2007-03-24

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:30 am

    Looks like a younger version of Enemy Territory to me. tongue



    Wolf3d Haven
    Minute Logic Blog

    linuxwolf
    Bring em' On!
    Bring em' On!

    Male
    Number of posts : 159
    Age : 34
    Location : Australia
    Hobbie : Games
    Registration date : 2011-12-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by linuxwolf on Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:52 pm

    Very impressive work there Mar, as always. The lighting is superb and the editing tool looks very professional.

    mar
    Can I Play, Daddy?
    Can I Play, Daddy?

    Male
    Number of posts : 27
    Age : 37
    Location : Czech republic
    Job : Programmer
    Hobbie : Oldschool games
    Registration date : 2012-05-25

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by mar on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:33 pm

    Thanks for you kind words guys, I'm especially happy that the best wolf coder around appreciates my work - I apprecitate yours as well.
    Anyway, I guess this is a farewell. Good luck to you in future work.

    Sponsored content

    Re: an experimental project

    Post by Sponsored content Today at 3:10 pm


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:10 pm