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    SonderKommando Revolt

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    doomjedi
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    SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by doomjedi on Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:31 am

    First topic message reminder :

    latest screenshots from my "in work" mod:





    Last edited by doomjedi on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:35 am

    So what exactly happened about this whole cancelation thing? Politicians involved? iD softawre manned up to create the great Wolf3d game, the original. Was banned in Germany, but was still awesome.

    EDIT: I read Dean's post on DHW. So, people were angry that real names were used and whatnot? This might be a dumb question, but what exactly would happen if they just released it and didn't give a crap what a few people think? All the attention being brought onto a game made by the Wolf3d community for fun is really sickening, especially with all the demands for the game to be brought down. It reminds me of the idiot that said playing as the Taliban is bad, and caused the game to be banned. (Medal of Honor, I believe.) I, for one, want to play the SonderSuperMod.

    I heard that some idiot posted Team Raycast = Team Racist and his only reason for posting this is because "they sounded similar". That's dumb. Reminds me of an idiot that came on Wolf3d Haven and spammed my inbox with "Nazis are evil, you shouldn't be embracing it", etc, etc, only with harsh language.

    It's sad. It's very sad.

    "The Anti-Defamation League, an advocacy group whose goal is to "stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment for all," called the game "horrific and inappropriate" in an interview with Kotaku, a video game blog. "

    "The Holocaust should be off-limits for video games. We hope the developers will reconsider and abandon the game," said the ADL spokesperson"

    I know not everyone lives in USA, but I believe in free speech. Doomjedi isn't raising the Nazi emblem and yelling "Hell yeah Holocaust!" I don't feel that this is "defamation".

    ""This rudimentary video game is an offensive portrayal of the Holocaust." said the ADL spokesperson. "With its unnecessarily gruesome and gratuitous graphics, it is a crude effort to depict Jewish resistance during this painful period which should never be trivialized." "

    I feel that this is just this guy's opinion. Nobody anywhere in Wolf3d community is saying that Holocaust is no big deal, and neither is the game. I doubt the game was giving the message that the Holocaust was trivial. Oncee again, I feel like people are being OWNED by a few people that find the negative aspects of anything. That reminds me of a guy who doesn't want to help WNE because he "doesn't believe in violence and feels that this form of entertainment should be stopped". This is insanity, folks.

    Read this:
    http://gnews.com/nazi-killing-mod-blasted-for-showing-holocaust-victims-16201024122013/
    And read the comments to the article.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Zombie_Plan on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:43 pm

    @Akuul wrote:
    @Zombie_Plan wrote:..It's their mod, ultimately it's THEIR choice whether or not they wish to release it. Sure, it sucks, but.
    I understand that the Sonder-Mod someone's property.
    @Zombie_Plan wrote:..but there are very good reasons.

    Or the few negative comments on the internet this is the reason???
    @Zombie_Plan wrote:..Furthermore, they have stated it might be released in the future. So chill out.
    And these words how to regard??? -> citation from DieHard Wolfers - > doomjedi:..We just cancel it. Cancelled things can theorethically be recancelled.. Theorethically??? And practically through how many years?

    DoomJedi has expressed that it's due to his real name being released and people constantly contacting him over misinformation. The online media portrayed the mod in a way that would get them quick attention (by calling it a concentration camp game). If you're so busy collecting quotes from DHW I would of thought you'd of seen that.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dean on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:07 pm

    Ok, just to clear up a few things.

    Jayngo - you are completely wrong. Hyping the mod through the creative process had nothing to do with the cacelling of the release date or the attention the mod received. Saying that no one should hype a mod is reactionary and just plain wrong. You have incorrectly connected something that isn't the cause of something else.

    Akuul - Wow, you just don't seem to understand what's going on. I understand what you are trying to say but hopefully the following will clear things up for everyone.

    The reason the Sonder release date has been cancelled is because of the personal attention that DoomJedi received from the release of the trailer. Plenty of people have released trailers for Wolf mods before but none have ever had this type of attention before. Most of the over exposure started when a gaming website found the trailer, put it on their site and incorrectly labeled the mod something it wasn't based solely on what they saw in the trailer without speaking to anyone or knowing anything about what the mod was really about. This caused a lot of idiots hiding behind their aliases and computers to write a lot of stupid stuff to help create controversy when there was really very little in the first place to be upset about. To be honest, most of them just don't give a **** about a mod of an 18 year old game, people just like to be heard whether what they are saying is accurate, misinformed or just plain stupid, unfortunately sometimes the internet gives everyone that chance.

    The release of the mod has been cancelled by the Mods creator, DoomJedi, because of the attention he himself has received about the mod. No one outside of Team RayCast has ever played the mod by the way, so no one knows what it's really about. DoomJedi has recieved numerous emails and contacts to speak about the mod. Being Jewish this has caused extra attention as it's losely based on the most horrific mistreatment of the Jewish people ever. I can understand why some people are saying this subject should be left taboo, all of Team RayCast can.

    We have Team members from all over the World. A Jewish person, A German, as well as people from 2 other continents who could all work in harmony to create a mod of an old game for fun without turning this into a 'your people did this, my people did this' type thing - The game was made for entertainment purposes only and not for any other agenda.

    The rest of Team Raycast has unanimously voted to still release the mod, either on January 1st as promised or in a couple of months when things blow over a bit. DoomJedi is making the sole decision on this at this time, not any of the other members of Team RayCast. We are extremely disappointed that this isn't being released at this time, you all will never know, even if the mod is released, just how much hard work was put in by everyone to get this mod to where it is.

    Most people don't really mind about the mod, for every bad comment there's at least 20 good ones. And remember this is based ONLY on the trailer, 140 seconds of a 42 level mod!!
    - "Seriously lets grow up and remember that we live in the real world, with real problems. Our country and economy is falling apart, our government is a joke and you fools are worried over whats in a crap 8-bit video game mod. The game is not real life folks. This is why humanity is a joke. We have real problems that need attention and we still have morons picking on the land of make-believe."

    - "If these images stir such emotion, dont play the game. Perhaps these people who find it so offensive should take issue with the numerous movies made depicting far worse treatment of Holocaust victims. These movies win Oscars, while indie game devs have to deal with the selective outrage of hypocrites."

    - "I really dont see much of anything wrong here. Sure, its distasteful to some (a lot) of people, but its a game and nothing but that.
    If anything, be glad it isnt a mod that places you in control as a Nazi killing Jews. Though, that would still be distasteful, still legally acceptable."

    - "Uwe Boll can make a movie about the Holocaust (despite his German heritage being on the wrong side of the war) but some guys cant make a mod for a game thats nearly twenty years old?"



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by doomjedi on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:40 am

    I'm sorry guys I don't have any emotional or other powers to post or repost my posts here from other forums. I can't work, and barely function at this state, am totally drained and exousted.

    I'm in a VERY hard emotional state, and while still getting and refusing interviews (attention that breaks any of my attempts to emotionally recover, feeling still in the traumatic event and not recovering after the event is over)- don't see getting out of it in any near future.

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Akuul on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:42 am

    @Dark_wizzie wrote:..iD softawre manned up to create the great Wolf3d game, the original. Was banned in Germany, but was still awesome...
    All is very simple - in Germany the swastika is forbidden. Even at German new-nazis flags are changed. But I wanted to tell about that iD Software went on certain risk because them could condemn for propagation in the own country. Reaction of inhabitants to the first FPS-game for PC could be very bad. I understand that in 90х the Internet has been poorly developed worldwide. But possibilities of printing mass-media, nobody cancelled radio, TV even now.
    @Akuul wrote:
    @Zombie_Plan wrote: DoomJedi has expressed that it's due to his real name being released and people constantly contacting him over misinformation. The online media...
    @Dean wrote:The reason the Sonder release date has been cancelled is because of the personal attention that DoomJedi received from the release of the trailer..
    Zombie_Plan and Dean What for you to me tell it? I it read all. So saw some articles on the Internet, saw responses on a trailer. And you thought there will be other reaction? All could be expected it. It was possible to expect criticism of puritans, anger of nazis, condemnation of chauvinists, religious fanatics and Etc..
    .
    Dean - What you are going to do now? Private release to forum members only? Will change animation, a drawing, sounds? What for all it? I already asked but you haven't answered and I want to repeat questions.. Let's assume that tomorrow you will accuse of propagation of nazism by means of Wolf-3d? Or for example. If doctors and nurses of the whole world take offense on mod-Krankenstein? If workers of hotels become angry on mod-Hotel Romanstein? That that will do community-DHW? You will close all resources and remove all games?? And you don't want to protect the rights already now?..
    @Dean wrote:...you all will never know, even if the mod is released, just how much hard work..
    You are mistaken. I know that it hard. Anyway the decision to accept to you. Personally I any more don't wait mod-SonderKommandoR. I suspect that game will be subjected censorship

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by jayngo26 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:39 am

    @Dean wrote:Ok, just to clear up a few things.

    Jayngo - you are completely wrong. Hyping the mod through the creative process had nothing to do with the cacelling of the release date or the attention the mod received. Saying that no one should hype a mod is reactionary and just plain wrong. You have incorrectly connected something that isn't the cause of something else.

    Ok Dean. Let me start by saying perhaps you misunderstood me. I UNDERSTAND that hyping up a mod you are working on is part of the process. I even hyped my latest mod a bit. Here and on my personal blog. I even made a trailer.

    But your mod has been canceled due to the fact of over-hyping. If the mod had not gotten so much attention then none of this would of happened. As stated before on DHW, the Wolf3d community is small and tight nit. Nobody around these parts would of made a big deal about your content in the mod. Brother Tank made some good points on DHW about all this. You guys claim you didn't want the hype but at the same time you allow it to come in the form of news, blogs, videos, newspaper email/interviews. A spade is a spade, Dean.

    Trust me when I say this. When I made a trailer for my mod and talked about it on my blog, I was a little fearful that Capcom would maybe have a problem with the content in my mod, since it includes many Resident Evil elements. I made the conscious decision to release a video, only knowing that it still would not get much attention. However, the content contained in Sonder is very personal to many people in the world. Resident Evil is one thing, but an actual Holocaust story is another. Especially since I heard you were using an actual person for the events in Sonder??? Be happy that person's family isn't going after you right now.

    It's sad what has happened. Doomjedi appears to be in bad spirits. Maybe all of us can learn from this mistake. 1.Maybe we shouldn't make anything too realistic. 2.Maybe we shouldn't hype our mods so much/or even talk about them until they are released.

    I think we all learned from the "Nate Smith" incident. And I think we can all learn from the "Sonder" incident.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dean on Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:26 pm

    Jayngo - I was just trying to clarify here that we didn'y hype the mod to the press or gaming sites or anything like that. We only hyped it to Wolfenstein forums. The only thing that was on a public forum was the trailer, just like plenty of other Wolf mods have done before, we did not send the trailer to anyone saying can you please review our mod or anything like that, we don't know how the modding site found it.

    Akuul - At this stage it is totally DoomJedi's decision as to whether we will release the mod at any time. I and the other memebers of the team have all voted to still release the mod but ultimately DoomJedi has the final say on this. We have all made suggestions of changes and things that could be done but DoomJedi just isn't in the state of mind to discuss anything related to the mod at this time. The only other thing I can confirm is that SonderKommando Revolt's 2 sequels have been cancelled.

    I will still stay in the community and will play and work and talk about mods like I have for the last few years. I love being apart of the Community, working on my hobbies (Wolf mods) and doing my blog, so none of that will change.

    I would love to see Sonder released (in some form) one day so tat everyone can get to play our hard work, for that reason more than any.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by giftmacher on Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:09 am

    Dean (Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:26 pm) wrote:we don't know how the modding site found it.

    You did submit the mod to moddb.com, didn't you? That site gets way more visitors than the average Wolf3dforum..

    Dean (Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:26 pm) wrote:The only other thing I can confirm is that SonderKommando Revolt's 2 sequels have been cancelled.

    I still have hope that you guys will eventually release the non-controversial Secret of Eridu..


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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dean on Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:43 pm

    Thanks Giftmacher, and yeah you probably are right that they got it from Moddb. I wasn't even sure that it had been released on there but as I've just checked, I can see that it certainly was, makes sense now. DoomJedi was in charge of the Moddb site so i guess he put it there.

    We have discussed at our development forum working on something else in the future and at the moment it is looking like 'Secret of Eridu' would be the go but it does appear that we'll all be stepping back to do our own things for a while before starting work on anything new as a team, at this time.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Akuul on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:34 am

    @Dean wrote:..I would love to see Sonder released (in some form)..

    Concerning the relation to Sonder I already spoke
    @Akuul wrote:..Personally I any more don't wait mod-SonderKommandoR. I suspect that game will be subjected censorship..
    Then it was possible to guess only that what there will be changes.. Now, after some offers at forum DHW, becomes clear that Sonder will be other game. But if you think that cardinal changes will rescue work of those who worked over creation Sonder that in my opinion it is self-deception. You partly repeat way "Wolf-3d for SNES".. Comparison incorrect is possible.. BUT.. It seems to me to refuse is better release "Sonder" than to let out the glamour, castrated version of game.

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dean on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:10 pm

    I see what you are saying Akuul. We still haven't gotten any further to release Sonder in any version at this time so all this may not even be an eventuality.

    If we were to make changes in order to release, those changes would only be done to the high level of the rest of the mod, we wouldn't ruin the original feel of the mod just it to get something out.

    At this time we are still all waiting to see what we do.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Akuul on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:07 am

    @Dean wrote:I see what you are saying Akuul...
    I tell it as in Sonderkommando Revolt there was a unique idea. It is a pity that all it was lost because of people which are far from "worlds Wolf-3d". However opponents of yours Mod can be understood. They would like to forget about that that in concentration camps were sonderkommando.
    It is interesting, if game it badly that than better and drawings David Olere???
    .
    http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/gallery/Olere.htm
    .
    You didn't ask about it those who criticize Sonderkommando Revolt???
    It would be very curious in what a difference between computer drawing and drawing on a paper...

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by apegomp on Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:54 pm

    I agree about the "trivializing tragedy" thing. But every shitty mainstream hollywood game/movie does that as well, so it's nothing new.

    Sonderkommando revolt is one person's way to cope with a sad moment in history. We must not bar and prevent him from doing that. Some people take photographs of their dead loved ones to process their sorrow and to make grieving process easier, others make wolf3d mods and we must accept and understand that.

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    Release date?

    Post by stathmk on Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:07 pm

    I thought that Dean and doomjedi were going to release this mod on January 1st. Please release it!

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dean on Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:42 pm

    Are you serious that you don't know everything thats gone on with this and why it hasn't been released?

    Did you read any of the few pages??

    The mod will NOT be released. For crying out loud....



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Zombie_Plan on Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:09 pm

    I LOVE NOT READING THE WHOLE THREAD.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Thomas on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:33 am

    This is the weirdest moment in Wolf history.

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by jayngo26 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:25 am

    Wait a minute. Are you telling me that Sonder is NOT coming out on Jan.1??? Since when did this happen???



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by WolferCooker on Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:08 am

    Jayngo, Doomjedi received some international heat from a trailer he released on Youtube a few weeks ago, particularly from an Israeli paper. He was interviewed a few times from them about Sonder. It left him in a state of disarray and decided to cancel the release.

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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by Dark_wizzie on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:36 am

    I thought you were being sarcastic. This indeed is the oddest moment in Wolf history. Crazier than Chris. Now that's crazy.



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    Re: SonderKommando Revolt

    Post by WolfForever on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:04 pm

    @Thomas wrote:This is the weirdest moment in Wolf history.

    Not quite, I think it's second weirdest.

    First place still belongs to a map from a mod primarily made by you...

    And I can only keep hoping this gets released. Someday, even if it's months or years away...when all the controversy has long since been forgotten...maybe just maybe we'll see it...

    (Not that I have my hopes up or anything, but no one knows what the future holds, I doubt many saw this sudden cancellation coming...certainly not me...)

    Yes, a weird moment indeed, but I still don't think it's time to knock that crown off the (should be) obvious first place winner.

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